Lessons from Beth Ann Swan, PhD, RN, FAAN

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:03

Hello listeners, welcome to Educational Landscapes, Lessons from Leaders. On today's episode we are going to learn from, Beth Ann Swan. Welcome to the show, Beth Ann.

Beth Ann Swan: 00:14

Thank you, Ulemu, I appreciate the opportunity.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:18

Wonderful. To get us going what is your educational leadership title or titles?

Beth Ann Swan: 00:25

So my educational leadership titles are currently, I'm the Associate Dean and Vice President for Academic Practice Partnerships at the School of Nursing here at Emory, and I am also the Interim Associate Dean for education in the School of Nursing.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:44

Thank you, those are quite lofty titles. So could you tell us what do you do in those roles?

Beth Ann Swan: 00:51

So for the academic practice partnership role, I work with the dean of our School of Nursing, Dr. Linda McCauley, and also the Chief Nurse Executive for Emory Healthcare, Dr. Sharon Pappas, to work together to develop a strategic direction of the partnership between the School of Nursing faculty and Emory healthcare nurses. We work together to strengthen and expand the school's educational clinical partnerships, which are really key to our relationship and then we work together to help to develop innovative educational models for all levels of programming within the school and as we are a school of nursing those educational models are really founded on clinical practice.

Ulemu Luhanga: 01:51

Wonderful, and then you had mentioned you have an interim role.

Beth Ann Swan: 01:57

Yes. So the interim associate dean role is new now since August the 1st and so in that role, again I'm working with the leadership council at the school and it's really focused on the educational experience of our students. From our pre-licensure traditional BSN students to our post licensure DNP and PhD students and everything in between around curriculum, assessment, evaluation, program planning, developing new programs, policy development and of course, partnerships. In that new role I have shared with everyone the notion that in the Office of Education we're really about people, partnerships, and performance and so the three P's and so people is pretty obvious. The partnerships we often think of external partners to us, but this is really about how do we partner with each other in the school across our various departments to really support the student experience as well as the faculty experience? And then performance, how do we keep ourselves accountable to making sure that student experience and faculty experience is what people want it to be?

Ulemu Luhanga: 03:44

Oh, that's amazing, I love those three P's. People, partnership, performance, and thinking about your other role clinical practice and so given that scope what skills do you use in your roles?

Beth Ann Swan: 04:04

There are many skills and different skills are used on different days and I could say 50 things but I'm going to try to limit it to maybe the top 10.

Ulemu Luhanga: 04:16

Okay.

Beth Ann Swan: 04:18

So I think skills that are really key and I'm going to say in use practically every day in a leader's role is communication, that's really foundational strategic thinking. I think it's important for a leader to have positivity and a can-do attitude. I think it's important for myself, any leader to really have awareness of self and also awareness of situations and how that awareness comes together on a daily basis. More pragmatically, it's important I use time management and organizational skills. Sometimes you have to compartmentalize, this is what I'm doing now and then you move to a different situation and you need to compartmentalize from what you just left. Flexibility and reliability, I think it's important to be flexible. I also think it's important to have that skill of being reliable and this might not be considered a skill but I think it's important to also be accessible and approachable in the role. The other skills that I think are important is recognizing potential in all the people that are here, and making sure that not only recognizing that potential. But being able to support other people's development, their individual development along their career pathway.

Beth Ann Swan: 06:22

A skill in mentoring is very important, the skill of being able to receive reverse mentoring is equally important. Conflict resolution, we're all not going to get along every day all day long and to be able to have the crucial conversations, being able to resolve conflict is important. I think another important skill is the ability to tolerate ambiguity. You know in your role we're like okay, we're living in this world where there's a lot of uncertainty, a lot of unknowns and having that skill or developing that ability to be in ambiguous situations and navigate those is important. The last one I'll mention, a skill that I use in my role probably almost every day is that skill, that ability to lead change. Because here at Emory, I think we all know that change is happening every day and I find myself sometime now in a rapid cycle change and so that ability I think is really important.

Ulemu Luhanga: 07:52

Absolutely. I feel like not just during the pandemic but that made it even more of an awareness for people that we're constantly... It's like, "What's happening today? What do we need to change?" So I think that is so important and I love the holistic nature of the skills that you highlighted. I wanted to ask you a little bit more to do with the reverse mentoring. I feel like a lot of people have heard mentoring, but can you tell us a bit more about what reverse mentoring is?

Beth Ann Swan: 08:30

So I see reverse mentoring as either people on our team or faculty I work with and interact with that their ability to mentor me. So I'm working on a couple projects now and although people think but you're the associate dean and I feel like no, I'm putty in your hands, I need you to be helping me to mentor me on some of these projects that we're working on. So I think it's any mentoring relationship, it's always... You say it's a two-way street. As much as you put into the relationship, you get out of the relationship. But I think in reverse mentoring I think the ability to accept that from perhaps people who consider them my mentees but I look at them as mentoring me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 09:51

Oh, I love that. Thank you, I really appreciate that. Because it does really help folks understand that mentee, mentor relationship and how it can truly be bidirectional. Yes, wonderful. So I presume you didn't start off an associate dean, so could you tell us a bit about what your journey was that led to these current roles?

Beth Ann Swan: 10:23

So I'll talk about it briefly because my journey has been a long one over many decades but how I got to Emory, I'll start there. So I was invited to serve as a visiting professor for the Emory School of Nursing in 2019 and way back when, Dean Linda McCauley, was the associate dean for research at the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing. When I was a staff member there working in Penn Nursing's international office and so we got to know a little bit, our paths crossed a little bit not too much. But when I left Penn for a faculty role at Thomas Jefferson University, and again got my first leadership role there. Linda, was one of many individuals, many mentors that I had. So, Linda McCauley, Norma Lang, just there were a lot of people and ultimately I did become the dean at the Jefferson College of Nursing and when that happened, again, I reached out to my mentors for help.

Beth Ann Swan: 11:58

To say, okay, now I'm really in a real leadership position and I need your help and so being the visiting professor and then serving as the dean at Jefferson College of Nursing in Philadelphia. The pandemic occurred, I made a decision that I would, "Retire." Or leave Jefferson and when Dean McCauley found that bit of news out she said, "Hey, would you ever consider coming south?" And I had never considered that because I was born and raised in Philadelphia, had spent all my life there and I just said to my husband, "Hey, there's an opportunity in Atlanta. What do you think?" And he's like, "Okay, let's go." So my husband's retired, we packed our bags and got on a plane during the pandemic and landed here in Atlanta where we've been now for three years.

Ulemu Luhanga: 13:11

That's amazing. Wow. Especially, I'm just thinking about that you were in Philadelphia and that's been home the whole time and then it's like all right, we're going to change it up for ourselves. Oh, that is amazing and I am sure the school of nursing is very fortunate to have you. I would love to hear, as you said you've had a number of leadership positions now. What do you wish you knew before stepping into those types of roles?

Beth Ann Swan: 13:50

Well, here at Emory I wish I knew how many hats I would wear in less than three years and so I feel like in this current position I just wish I knew how many hats I would be wearing. I think in general what I wish I would've known, I think some is you hear people say take in every day, experience every day, live in the moment. I wish I probably would've taken that more to heart, not worry about what's coming but being more present in the day and so now after many years I can do that. Now I have an appreciation of that and I can get up every morning and say today's Wednesday, September 20th and I'm in today and so I think that's one big thing I wish I knew. I think another thing I wish I knew is hindsight is always 20-20, but the twists and turns that come in a journey in leadership and you just have to be open to when the next door opens and the next door closes. So I think there's some of the things I wish I knew.

Ulemu Luhanga: 15:41

I would love if you don't mind-expanding on that a little, because I think that is something that people don't really talk about a lot. Knowing when to move on from a role, as you said the opening and closing of doors. Since you've had these experiences over time have you gained any strategies or insights that you use in order to realize for yourself, you're like I've done what I want to do and now I'm ready to move on?

Beth Ann Swan: 16:21

That's a great question. So I should start by saying I've been very fortunate in my life and in my career that I felt like they were mentors. But I always felt... I now know, but back then I didn't know. I always felt that there were people looking out for me. So there were people who knew me better than I knew myself and so I never had a plan for leadership early on and an opportunity would come up and again somebody would say to me, "Beth Ann, I think you'd be good at that. Why don't you try that?" And I would've never considered it myself and so I have to say as I moved from role to role from being a staff nurse to being an assistant head nurse. Every role along the way there was someone saying, "You'd be good at that. Why don't you think about that?" And so I always felt fortunate that I thought, wow, there's somebody always looking out for me which nowadays I try to do that for other people. I try to be that person who's saying, "You'd be good at that, but you should try that."

Beth Ann Swan: 17:48

And I think the question about when it's time, when you feel like you've contributed all you could and then it was time to move on. I think it's hard because you get to a point where you're really good at what you do and you're comfortable and it's scary to say I'm going to leave my comfort zone and I'm going to try something new that I might not be so fortunate, I might not be so good at if I try something new. But it's part of being able to take the risk, take the leap and like I said I always kind of live by this like what's the worst that could happen?

Ulemu Luhanga: 18:39

Yeah.

Beth Ann Swan: 18:40

I go back to what I was doing. I don't succeed and I go back to what I was doing and in my mind I thought, well, that's the worst that could happen I loved what I was doing before I changed.

Ulemu Luhanga: 18:57

Right.

Beth Ann Swan: 18:58

So I know that might sound silly and then I think in my most recent role when I thought I'm going to, "Retire." If you will. I felt like I had contributed all I believed I could contribute and I felt professionally I had just accomplished so many things that I just thought this is a good life, this was a good career. I was very satisfied and again, then getting this opportunity at Emory for me was I'll call it mind-blowing. Because now I'm here at Emory and there's just one opportunity after the next to work with great faculty, work with an awesome team, work with great students, write grants, publish with people, help develop a simulation center. I mean it's like just the opportunities here have again, they have blown my mind and again in 2020 before I came here I was very content at the life lived and now being here I feel like, wow, I don't think it could possibly get any better when I thought it was already great back then.

Ulemu Luhanga: 20:42

Indeed, thank you so much for sharing. I think that is so insightful. The two big things that I've taken away from what you just said was recognizing one's own risk levels and I really appreciate that mindset of I can try this and my fallback is something I already love. So it's not bad, it's not a bad idea to give it a go and also the power of the people around you who are always looking out for you. Thank you, so insightful. Okay, back to the core questions again. What continuing professional development do you do to keep up with the needs of your various roles?

Beth Ann Swan: 21:35

So I think a lot of it has to do with leadership development through professional organizations and really being able to identify what am I missing? What's the missing link in the work that I'm doing? And then identifying I guess programmatically, very concretely what that would be. One example would be the world of simulation and the significant growth in the technology that's used in simulation and having a role here at the school. I was going back saying, okay, I need to do a master course to learn more about simulation. I'm now in a research fellowship focused on simulation, so for me it's always about saying what's missing? What do you need? And going out and finding that program, that person, the opportunity to do deeper work in the field.

Ulemu Luhanga: 22:50

Wonderful. Are there any organizations that you would recommend for any of our educators, nurse educators that you have been to?

Beth Ann Swan: 23:00

So there are two... Well, one that doesn't exist anymore which was for me kind of life-changing was the Robert Wood Johnson Executive Nurse Fellows program. So that was really, again like I said life-changing from a leadership perspective. But there are national professional organizations like the American Association for Colleges of Nursing, they offer a leadership development program. The National League for Nursing, they offer a leadership program for academic leaders, they're the two that come to mind. There's the American Organization... It used to be AONE, now it's called AONL. They have a wide range of leadership development opportunities, everything from the emerging leader to the senior executive. The Wharton Executive Nurse Fellows Program, there's a program at Wharton that I've attended. So there are opportunities out there both specific to nursing and then also for... You don't have to be a nurse to do the leadership program and I'll mention two programs here at Emory. So right now in the School of Nursing, we're offering a faculty leadership academy that we'll kick off the first time this fall and I believe it's for 15 of our faculty academic leaders in the school.

Beth Ann Swan: 24:57

Emory, also offers the Woodruff Leadership Academy and so that's another opportunity and again that's all fields, all disciplines here at Emory and I know that we have had nursing faculty here in our school who have participated, that they select I believe it's 20 people from across the university each year. But I think there's lots of opportunities for leadership development. Again, depending on what your niche might be or what you might want to do something in change, you might want to do something related to finance, you might want to do more in marketing. So I think it's wide open, those opportunities depending on what you're interested in and what you feel like you need to add to your portfolio.

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:56

Thank you. I love the range of things that you've highlighted there, lots of options for people to look through. What additional advice would you give to someone interested in doing the same types of leadership roles that you've had?

Beth Ann Swan: 26:16

Some advice again, I could probably think of many things but I have a few things here. So I think most of all, I think it would be important for a person to know they have to really commit to the role and put their whole self in. You can't be half in and half out of leadership, you have to be all in. You have to be open to the infinite possibilities and when I say that it's the good things and the not so good things. Because you could hit a bump in the road in your leadership and say, I really messed that up and then lo and behold it turns out to be an opportunity that you wouldn't have experienced had you not hit the bump. So I think you just have to be open to those possibilities, taking care of yourself. We hear a lot about that today about wellness, taking care of your mind, taking care of your body. So I think taking care of yourself as a leader I think is very important. Embracing change, ask a lot of questions, just ask a lot of questions.

Beth Ann Swan: 27:35

You don't have to be the smartest person in the room, you can be that person who asks all the questions and I think people are better for it by asking. I recommend that people become a volunteer leader in a professional organization. So if you've never been a leader or you aspire to be a leader, a place to get started is in your professional organization. Volunteer for a committee, volunteer for a task force, volunteer for the new standards they're writing and then become familiar with the board of directors. Just be willing to serve in those leadership opportunities. I think another bit of advice would be to find joy in all that you do, I do, we do. Because it's important to sustain career optimism, and I talked about positivity before. We're all going to have good days, we're all going to have not so good days. But to be able to sustain that optimism in what we do as a leader is really important, not only for ourselves but for the people we're leading.

Beth Ann Swan: 29:01

Because I believe when I look to a leader, I mean I want that leader to be positive, to be optimistic, to be looking towards the future. So I think finding that joy and having that optimism, and I've read this quote and I don't know who... I want to say, Kurt Vonnegut, but I'm not sure. But I found this quote in thinking about this question and I'm kind of paraphrasing. But it says, this is my last bit of advice, to enjoy the beauty presence and power of today and each day. Because when you look back on your leadership journey you will recall it in a way that you could not have grasped now how much possibility laid before you. I think it's, Kurt Vonnegut, but I'm not sure. But when I read that I thought wow, it's true. If you told me three years ago, I would not have had any idea how much possibility and opportunity was yet to come.

Ulemu Luhanga: 30:23

Thank you, I will definitely look up who that quote was to verify. But very powerful and it makes me think, as you said earlier that there's a lot of stuff we don't know and it's only in hindsight when we're reflecting and so yeah, thank you for sharing that. So building on the conversation we've had so far and I'm coming back to those P's, people, partnerships, performance. How do you view succession planning in order to expand education in your profession or through your roles?

Beth Ann Swan: 31:05

So succession planning is critical as a leader and again, I look at this to say if you think of a baseball analogy. You always need to know who's on your bench and so who's ready to step up and part of that succession planning is really getting people ready. So when somebody taps you on your shoulder with that leadership opportunity you're ready without any hesitation to say, yes, I'll do that. So some of that ties into that mentoring, reverse mentoring and ties into that recognizing potential and having a good idea of people on your team, people in the organization. Having a good idea, well what are they interested in? They may be interested in leadership, they may not be. But everybody has their special gifts and so in looking at succession planning it might not always be about that defined leadership opportunity. But you think of succession planning, I look at it as success, so success planning for people on the team and that knowing who your bench is but also being a person, being a leader who's getting your bench ready. So that's kind of how I view succession planning.

Beth Ann Swan: 32:54

It's really planning for success and the second part of that about expanding education in the profession and my area of I'll say expertise or where I've spent a lot of my time has been in ambulatory care and again, started off as a member of a committee and ultimately became president of the American Association of Ambulatory Care Nursing. Because this is where my practice area of interest focused. But again I think that in supporting my professional organization, that was also a way that I could contribute to succession planning for the emerging leaders, for that next generation of nurses who are going to come through, who are leading that organization now and then other ways we've talked about mentoring. I mean, I love working with students, mentoring students, mentoring faculty and colleagues. Again, in orchestrating their academic career. Again, so they're able to sustain this career optimism because the students...

Beth Ann Swan: 34:25

And like I tell my two daughters, "You're going to be working for the rest of your life and whether you're a leader or you're not a leader. You're going to be leading from where you are and you need to be able to sustain that optimism in your career, in your leadership, in life." And so how do we mentor students, mentor our newer faculty to achieve that success?

Ulemu Luhanga: 35:01

Thank you, and building on this discussion about successes and success planning. What would say has contributed to your biggest successes thus far?

Beth Ann Swan: 35:15

So I look at this in two different ways, so I mentioned mentors. So I've had like I said people, whether you call them mentors or people who have watched out for me throughout my career of being a nurse and that started way back when as a new nurse. I worked on Silverstein 10 at HUP in Philadelphia, my head nurse's name... Now, they're nurse managers I guess or unit directors. But my head nurse way back when her name was, Ella Ryan Maloney, and she was probably the first person I identify as a mentor and then just over time I mean... And I probably won't name everyone, I'll forget people. But Joanne Disch, Mark Sovey, I've mentioned Norma Lang, I just have had so many people, I've mentioned Dean McCauley. But there have just been so many people over time that have contributed to those successes and then on a personal note my parents, my husband, my daughters. Because without their support and understanding... They make everything possible, so they make this journey possible.

Ulemu Luhanga: 36:39

Wonderful, thank you. Going back to some of what we discussed before, recognizing as you said when you take on different roles there are things that you realized you need to add to your portfolio in order to continue to do your work really well. What would you say are your biggest growth opportunities right now?

Beth Ann Swan: 37:04

Right now my biggest growth opportunities are learning from the people around me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 37:09

Nice.

Beth Ann Swan: 37:12

Like I said, every day here at Emory is a new day and the opportunity to learn from the people around me is just incredible.

Ulemu Luhanga: 37:27

Love that, thank you. So we've talked about people and people in different forms. So I'm guessing this is going to be linked to your answer for the next one, but we will see. What do you love most about your work and what you do?

Beth Ann Swan: 37:45

So what I love most is that every day is different. When I come to the school every day, I know what's on the calendar but I know what's on the calendar is not going to be what's happening that day. So I love the variety and every day being different and I love just celebrating the achievements of our faculty and our students. We have just phenomenal faculty and students here at the Emory School of Nursing and just being able to celebrate their achievements is something I just really enjoy about my work.

Ulemu Luhanga: 38:27

Wonderful. So as you reflect on your experiences to date, what would you say are your current passions around education?

Beth Ann Swan: 38:42

Well, the first one of course is students. Here at the school of nursing we're student centric and I love working with students and I have said to people, "You could put me in a room with students all day long and I would be happy. I could do that all day long and that would be fine for me." I think other passions around education are the number of partnerships and collaborations that we have. Being able to have such a diverse portfolio of things that I do, I think is really incredible. The other thing I also will mention around, you talked about passion around education, educational philosophy. I mean, I believe we can offer students a rigorous program with support, without being ruthless and so we can offer rigor with support. Again, I come back to students. I really enjoy seeing students emerge as leaders and scholars because I see them as the next generation. They're going to be us soon, and being able to support their wanting to emerge as leaders and scholars is really important and hopefully I'm inspiring the students. That's a passion I have.

Beth Ann Swan: 40:32

I think I am, but hopefully I am inspiring to students. As I said before I love working with students, I love working with faculty who are early in their academic careers. I think it's important for people to get off on a good foot and have positivity as they begin their journey, so there are a few passions.

Ulemu Luhanga: 41:01

Thank you. So those were my core questions which were very career focused, but we recognize you are more than what you do. So what are some things you do outside of work to help you maintain joy in life and practice?

Beth Ann Swan: 41:23

Well, hopefully there might be some people listening to this podcast who have seen me walking. So I love to walk, I walk every morning. Sometimes even in the evening, now it's getting a little darker earlier so maybe not so much in the evening. But I love to walk, I love to be outdoors with my husband. I love to read, listening to books, I love flowers, visiting gardens, one of the two great finds here in Atlanta, the Atlanta Botanical Gardens. We go there often, we've discovered Gibbs Gardens now and so that's another beautiful... It's a little further away. But it's another great place to go, I love to travel and also I like to bake.

Ulemu Luhanga: 42:24

What's your favorite thing to bake?

Beth Ann Swan: 42:26

So my signature is banana bread or banana chocolate chip bread, brownies, chocolate chip cookies, I can make a pound cake. So anything that's got sugar, flour, all the things we should not be eating.

Ulemu Luhanga: 42:54

But we love them anyway.

Beth Ann Swan: 42:56

Correct.

Ulemu Luhanga: 42:59

Thank you, Beth Ann, those were my core questions for today. But before I let you go, any last words of wisdom for aspiring educators or education leaders?

Beth Ann Swan: 43:13

Just find joy every day, find joy every day in what you do.

Ulemu Luhanga: 43:20

Thank you, I think that is a wonderful way for us to end this episode. Thank you again for your time.

Beth Ann Swan: 43:28

Thank you, Ulemu, I really appreciate the opportunity.