Lessons from Kristy Martyn, PhD, RN, CPNP-PC, FAAN

Ulemu Luhanga (: 00:02

Hello listeners. Welcome to Educational Landscapes, Lessons from Leaders. On today's episode, we are going to learn from Kristy Martyn. Welcome to the show, Kristy.

Kristy Martyn (: 00:15

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 00:18

Wonderful. So to get us going, what is your educational leadership title or titles?

Kristy Martyn (: 00:26

I am a professor, tenured professor in the School of Nursing and I am the associate dean for education.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 00:34

All right. So what do you do in your role as the associate dean for education?

Kristy Martyn (: 00:39

So I oversee all of our educational programs. So we have PhD, doctor of nursing practice, master's of nursing science, as well as master's of nursing, and bachelor's degree, and other programs that are coming on board are things like a perfusion program, and there's a master's in perfusion to be launched in the fall. So I oversee those programs. I also help and facilitate launching of programs, development of programs, and that type of thing. And then I problem solve, with maybe issues we have related to courses or to learning, and any student issues I'm usually involved in assisting with as well.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 01:27

That was a lot of programs that are under your purview.

Kristy Martyn (: 01:32

Yes, that is a lot. And we continually develop new programs based on need, healthcare needs like the perfusion is a good example of that. That's not a nursing degree, but it was very much coming from practice saying we need more perfusionists, and we have opportunity in our school to pursue things like that. And we're dedicated to it, with an ultimate goal I'll add of increasing access to healthcare. That's our focus.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 02:04

That is wonderful to hear. And so as you talk about that the programming is responsive to the needs in the community, do you look at Emory Healthcare, Atlanta, or it's like more broadly what are the needs within the US?

Kristy Martyn (: 02:23

Yes. Actually yes, yes, yes. All of those, Emory Healthcare is our academic partner, so we very much are focused on needs that they identify, and that we're probably more familiar with. And also partner with them on those. So that's very much the case. And also, as part of Emory, we're very committed to Atlanta, and to what the needs are in Atlanta and how we can address those. And then nationally as well. And ultimately with increasing nursing workforce, and now perfusion workforce force as well, that is a primary goal of ours. So that's definitely an actually global need as well. So we're focused broadly.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 03:12

That is great to hear. So thinking about developing these programs, problem solving and all of that, what skills do you use in your leadership role?

Kristy Martyn (: 03:26

That's a good question. First thing that comes to mind is the people skills. Interpersonal, I think that is true, that comes to mind. And working together for solution. That is high priority from my point of view. The other skills I think are organization, communication, resilience has been a very big priority, as well as persistence and openness to new ways, to developing new opportunities and people. So all those things considered. That's my answer. I don't know if that's adequate or what you were looking for, but that's what comes to mind.

Kristy Martyn (: 04:17

Oh, and one more thing, being humble, I've found. I don't know if that's a skill. But it has definitely been, and I don't know if actually humble's the best way to say that, but it's recognizing and appreciating the contributions of others that we work with and supporting that. And I guess that fits a lot of what I've already said in terms of openness to new ways, and actually enacting that kind of support as well has worked well for me.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 04:51

Thank you. I think that it's very important to be humble, that humility, ability to work with others. And I would love for you to expand a little more about resilience. Because I think it's a word we hear, but how it is practiced or viewed is not always described. So can you tell us a bit more about what you mean when you talk about resilience?

Kristy Martyn (: 05:13

So first thing that comes to mind about it is having a positive, hopeful outlook. I believe that there is opportunity to work well with people and to come to solution. And so to me, I speak about it from that point of view of that perspective helps me to be resilient. And the resilience then that I need is when we encounter difficulties, which we always do. We've had such a crisis when we have had pandemic issues, as well as a crisis in workforce for nursing. And so to be resilient has been persisting, which I'm very dedicated to do, to support our mission and to figure out a way to do that. So this is very unusual, and I would never have said that's my definition of resilience, but it's all part of it for me. And it provides me with the hope, as well as the path forward and opportunity that rejuvenates me and keeps me going, and I think successful.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 06:32

Thank you. That is a wonderful, rich, actionable definition and application of resilience. So I appreciate that.

Kristy Martyn (: 06:41

Oh, thank you.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 06:44

So recognizing you probably didn't start out as an associate dean, what was your journey that led to this current role?

Kristy Martyn (: 06:54

So first off, I was at University of Michigan for 15 years in the School of Nursing there in Ann Arbor. And I went there as a brand new PhD. I had taught before as an instructor, and entered as a specialty director for family nurse practitioner and pediatric programs at the master's level. And brand new to the research intensive environment. And I was successful in getting tenure. And the year I applied for tenure, the department chair tapped me, saw potential in me to be the leader of their visioning taskforce and strategic planning group for the division of primary care.

Kristy Martyn (: 07:41

And I was honored to do that, but it wasn't something I was seeking. And I remember later thinking, thank you for recognizing my ability here, as I ended up very much enjoying the influence opportunity, to guide the strategy and then the forward development of that department, that then ended up being the best research funded department and the most graduates. And it was really, really positive at a really good school and university.

Kristy Martyn (: 08:15

And then the next year the department chair was planning to step down, and said to me, "I recommended you." And I was shocked. I just said, first thought was me? No. And the next thought was opportunity. So maybe that fits with my resilience description. I don't know. But I appreciated her opinion and I appreciated then the opportunity to apply. And I was appointed, selected to be a department chair, and I was in that role for quite a few years before I came here, and came here as an assistant dean.

Kristy Martyn (: 09:00

And so it was an opportunity for me that someone else recognized my skills and supported me and encouraged me. And actually just, funny story, three of the senior associate deans came to me a year after I had done that department chair role, and said, "We really weren't sure you could do this." But the only reason they were telling me is that they said, "You've done it," and was pleasantly surprised. And so thank God.

Kristy Martyn (: 09:29

But the reason, which was a very important lesson I learned, that they didn't think I could do it was because I was not experienced in administration and leadership, formal. I mean I had program director, that kind of thing, but not at this school level or organizational level. And that was one piece. The other piece was they thought I was too nice. And that was the most striking thing to learn early on in my leadership path. And thinking, yes, I think I am a nice person, and that's important to me and it's part of how I see I can work well and be effective. So it was striking to me that they thought that was going to interfere.

Kristy Martyn (: 10:20

And since then I have been very dedicated to not changing that about who I am. And at the same time, be an organizational champion. And the combination of those two things, being people oriented and a good nice person and a team player, and at the same time an organizational champion and advancing the mission, have been something that was based in that feedback I got. So anyway, I don't know. Did I answer your question?

Ulemu Luhanga (: 10:53

Yes. Yes you did. We learned you started from Michigan and department chair, and now you are here at Emory.

Kristy Martyn (: 11:03

Yes, yes. And then when I came here, I was assistant dean of clinical advancement, which was a lovely opportunity that now another faculty is in that role, which does a beautiful job. And I was tapped for a variety of things, DNP program director, doctor of nursing practice. And then when the associate dean for graduate education position came available, the dean asked if I would apply for that. So again, I've been mostly tapped for things or encouraged to do things.

Kristy Martyn (: 11:37

I still at that point was not thinking I would be seeking something like that out. And then the associate dean for undergraduate education left to go be dean somewhere else, and the dean combined the two positions, which is why I'm in the role I'm in of associate dean for education over all programs in the School of Nursing. So that's how that happened. And so along the way, it's doing a good job. It's also listening to others, I think, and really then reflecting on my skills and what I contribute.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 12:15

That is amazing, and I really appreciate you highlighting that element of the feedback you got where they were worried about you being too nice. And I think that really resonated with me because I am, that's my core of who I am, is to be nice. And I'm like, that shouldn't prevent me from doing different things. So I am delighted that you continue to be nice and you continue to grow as you-

Kristy Martyn (: 12:47

It's a great thing. And it's an asset, isn't it?

Ulemu Luhanga (: 12:48

Yes.

Kristy Martyn (: 12:50

But it is not always viewed that way. I think it is in action viewed that way, but it's sometimes seen as being too soft or those types of things. And it's not that. That is not the case, as you well know.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 13:03

Indeed. Indeed, So as you think about the position you're in, which now has combined two roles, what do you wish you knew before stepping into this current role?

Kristy Martyn (: 13:19

Oh boy, that's a really good question. I think the biggest thing I didn't know that I now know is what it means to be an organizational champion. And I think probably that was my biggest lesson, and it is related to all roles in leadership I've had. But not having understood that well until I came here, and I mean organization of the school and organization of the university and the community, and what it really means to be that. Which to me means you're mission focused and mission driven. And those things are critical to allow me then to see that there are different ways of doing things, and what those ways might be, and getting to how often, is how, not if, we advance the mission.

Kristy Martyn (: 14:23

And so that was something I didn't, well even after I think seven years of department chair at Michigan, I still didn't quite get that until I came here. And I think that's Emory and our school that have been so influential for me in learning that. And we have such a mission that we want to support it, but how we do that is often I think very influenced by our mission and keeping a focus on that. So I hope that's what you were wanting to know about.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 14:57

I did. I did. I think our listeners will really appreciate that perspective. So thinking about the different things that you have to do, you talked about the skills that you use. What continuing professional development do you do to keep up with the needs of your role?

Kristy Martyn (: 15:18

Yeah. So actually related to organizational champion, one thing that's been very helpful to me is leadership coaching. That has been extremely helpful to learn. And I think that's how I learned so much about that major thing that I didn't know when I started. And that is a key component. And then the other that I've most recently been doing, and it started during the pandemic, is listening to podcasts even more so than reading. I'm obviously reading Agile and a variety of other great books about leadership.

Kristy Martyn (: 15:59

But I love the Harvard Business IdeaCast. It's just been something that as I'm cooking dinner, I mean whatever moment I have, I'm listening to things like that. Those types of things. There's also one focused on academia, Teaching in Higher Ed, and most of those are more related to the teaching, the way we teach. But I listen to those related to how I lead and what I'm leading. And then of course I love the history podcasts and all the other. And I'm very much in reading history. And again, I think because of the roles we have, that's part of my lens in anything I'm doing, reading. Of course the things I read for pleasure, maybe not as much, but sometimes. But those types of things have been very influential to me in continuing development.

Kristy Martyn (: 16:54

And then continuing development, of course, professional, this nursing programs and courses and webinars. And right now we have a major change in nursing education nationally. We're moving to competency-based education, and that is something that schools of medicine have done many years. Nursing now is entering into this, and it's a very big change. And so I'm being educated.

Kristy Martyn (: 17:25

And the other area I'm being educated that I think is very relevant to all of our roles and leadership, of course consequently, is related to AI and to things for example like ChatGPT. I want to be open and understanding when people are talking about decisions that need to be made related to students using this. And so as an example, some of the great things I'm hearing, one was a podcast actually from the higher ed podcast I listen to, Teaching in Higher Ed, where there was a speaker from Ireland who's a lead in disability education there, and talking about how we use something like this, we need to understand it first of all, and then guide students in how they use it because they're going to.

Kristy Martyn (: 18:14

So rather than the other conversations I was hearing in different spots were how do we deal with plagiarism? Well that's important. His view was, which I loved, which was guide them to think about when you're employed, what are you going to need? You need to learn what we're teaching, not have that be a shortcut in any way. At the same time, here's some good ways to use this and advance your work. So broad answer, but there's so many ways that I keep learning, and I think that's a basic piece. Basic point is continually learning. And being open to new, I think, young, or innovative ideas always.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 19:05

I love the breadth-

Kristy Martyn (: 19:06

Make it fun too. What'd you say?

Ulemu Luhanga (: 19:06

I love the breadth of your continuing learning. I love that breadth.

Kristy Martyn (: 19:11

It's there. And that's more fun, isn't it? It's enjoyable. Yeah.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 19:17

Indeed, indeed. So as you kind of reflect on your career to date, what advice would you give someone interested in doing the same type of leadership role or roles that you've been in?

Kristy Martyn (: 19:30

I go back to organizational champion. That is critical. And why I say that is, as a faculty, when I went to Michigan and was program director, and I was also that at Georgia State, I'm working very much focused here in teaching, I'm pointing to a more narrow but very important role. And I shouldn't even say narrow, but a very focused role, and educating students for the best skill for the competencies they need to provide care. And that was my focus as FNP and PNP director.

Kristy Martyn (: 20:10

And I wasn't thinking of the overarching mission, even though I was improving workforce, increasing it, I wasn't framing it as an organizational mission in my day-to-day work, as a faculty member and as a leader in faculty and in educational programs. And often felt like I was fighting the intent of the leadership, or the administration. And now being in the leadership and administration that some people may feel they want to fight, to me, I see the blending of we have the same goals, we have the same mission. We all want to improve workforce and diversity of workforces. Another component that is very much a priority, and it strikes me very much as common goals we all have. But I see this difference of approach, difference of view, that can be very difficult and frustrating.

Kristy Martyn (: 21:19

That has probably been the biggest thing that I feel. The more I could be an organizational champion earlier on, I probably would've taken some different routes than what I did. And anyway, I see that as being essential for a leadership at the level I'm at. And at other levels, I'm sure, I think at all levels actually. So is that what you were wondering about?

Ulemu Luhanga (: 21:46

Yes. And I think I really appreciate you bringing that up because I do find that is a very common thing that you hear about in higher ed regardless of the profession, that there's this faculty versus administration. Which I always struggled to understand because I'm like, but administration is usually faculty. So why is...

Kristy Martyn (: 22:09

Right, right. It's a really true thing. And a good example is the focus, and this might be nursing as well, is as an organization, we are also a business, and we need to have the support for the great things we want to do in our educational programs. And that requires funding. And so that requires a variety of things like tuition and a variety of sources of income, as well with ultimately that same goal in mind of mission and common purpose. And so it's really important. But it's hard to see, or it was hard for me to see, I should say it that way. And so even though I didn't see it as well as I do, I was recognized, you heard my story. So it didn't interfere so much. But I could have done better. Could have done better earlier even. And I think for people who are headed in this direction, that might be something to think about.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 23:18

Indeed. Thank you.

Kristy Martyn (: 23:20

Yeah. You're welcome.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 23:22

So as you talked about, we are in the business of education, the business, higher ed, and within that, how do you view succession planning?

Kristy Martyn (: 23:35

Oh, I love this question. It's something that just came up today talking to a new director of a new program and saying, "We should begin your succession planning now, and that would be the approach that we recommend." And then I said, "However, I have not done that," which is not good. And at the same time what an opportunity and an encouragement for me to do it in terms of who and how we support our colleagues and people who will be great leaders, and how can we support our colleagues in different ways? And I think it does that, and it also helps identify at the leadership level who is wanting to advance into leadership of this type. And also not just recognize it, but support them and support them intentionally.

Kristy Martyn (: 24:35

And so I see that as a broad question. And maybe now that I'm thinking about it and don't have a plan, that maybe the plan could be succession planning of the broadest sense, which would be there could be opportunity for quite a few. I think for my role, there could be different ways you could even design the role, but you could also have opportunity of different types that maybe not just be in our school, but might be preparing you for a role of this type in another school, or something like that. So could succession planning be that broad? And so you then are intentionally supporting people in your groups to move forward, and asking them if they're interested, and also recognizing I had the fortunate opportunity of people recognizing or not recognizing my ability as well. So I have work to do on this.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 25:29

Indeed. Indeed.

Kristy Martyn (: 25:29

It's very important though.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 25:34

Yes. Important and good work. And I love the perspective you have about succession planning in the broadest sense that really, I think, it gets to almost that skills development. Because the stuff people could learn may take them to your role, but may take them to other places too.

Kristy Martyn (: 25:55

Right, right. And that's actually probably then you get to a point where, as you get closer to not being in the role, you also get to a point where it needs to be very specific, an individual. And I think that's the other part of it. But to start broad, I like that. And it then gives you opportunity probably to create new pathways, but also to select maybe. Would be lovely to have a few people that could be considered. For me, when I was considered at Michigan, I was pretty much the only one that they considered at that time. And that's okay. But it is of course nice to have an opportunity to consider a variety of people. And there probably were other people who were not tapped like I was, which is another consideration. How do we broaden that opportunity for everyone?

Ulemu Luhanga (: 26:50

Absolutely. Thank you.

Kristy Martyn (: 26:52

You're welcome.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 26:54

So then as we continue to think about what you've done so far, what contributed to your biggest successes thus far?

Kristy Martyn (: 27:05

Right, the team approach. Team approach. So people. Again, I said people oriented. It's just appreciating talents, recognizing them, and then appreciating them, and planning with individuals to work as part of the team with, again, the right seat on the bus, the skills. Recognizing the skills people have and helping them to be in the position to take advantage of that, to flourish with that.

Kristy Martyn (: 27:36

I think of situations where we have opportunities, and if we're not aware of it's not only someone's interest but also their skills. And we can guide, I think, more appropriately for them and for the mission. I think it would be much more effective if we can understand. So then it makes me think, how do we know what people's skills are? And I think a lot of that has to do with observation and listening and awareness and working together. So back to the team.

Kristy Martyn (: 28:13

So the team opportunity, that is I think the biggest... For me, I couldn't function without the team. And I'm talking about team of all levels, leadership, faculty, and other administrators, and staff, and essential partners with us and equal partners, I believe, has been especially important I think for successful programs and education in our school. And being willing to say, I hadn't thought of that suggestion that you're bringing forward before, and let's give it a try. Even if I don't think it's a good one or even if I don't think it's going to work. I have been surprised and surprised and surprised. Knowing I don't know everything. And at the same time knowing I haven't even thought of things that others have.

Kristy Martyn (: 29:17

And so too, I think it's the whole, and maybe team isn't the right... Well, it's team, but it's a community. It's our community, and our student are included in that too. So all of us, the faculty, the staff, and the students working together. And as an example, we developed a respect statement for our school when I was chair of the DEI committee. This was years ago. The students developed that, and we all just agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed. And then the dean helped us to accept that as a school statement. And anyway, as one example. So that's how I've been successful is with the whole, the community.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 30:05

Yes. I love that. I love you started with describing it as a team, and then as you thought about the people who make up the team, you were like, "Yeah, this is actually a community."

Kristy Martyn (: 30:16

It is a community. And again, all of that is very much needed to do the type of work we do well and to enjoy it, which is essential. So that's part of success. It's nice to be asked these questions. I don't often think about those things.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 30:38

I'm glad I could help you with a little reflection time.

Kristy Martyn (: 30:44

I appreciate it. The more of that, the better. Thank you.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 30:52

Indeed. You're welcome. Welcome. So you mentioned something that I think we don't always appreciate, but we don't know what we don't know. And so what are or were your biggest growth opportunities thus far?

Kristy Martyn (: 31:06

Yes. Well, one was that very piece of understanding finance. And I'm still learning always. But starting with getting the support and assistance. We have a wonderful associate dean of finance. And more than that, she's much more than that, who helps us to not only understand, but to enact and work together as a team to provide us with the resources we need. And to really understand that rather than sometimes in the past fighting that, or not embracing it. And that has been a big growth opportunity for me.

Kristy Martyn (: 31:47

And then of course, back to the organizational champion, I've already mentioned that in terms of that is huge growth opportunity, which fits with the finance. And I say it that way because often as nurses and mission oriented organization, that isn't always seen as being a very positive focus, but it absolutely is essential for that very reason of advancing the mission. So those things I think come to mind. And I'm not mentioning, I mean, of course I've been a faculty member for years, and the knowledge and the competencies and the things that we're moving forward to, those are all great growth opportunities as well. And those have been a bit easier for me to manage than the other newer organizational champion approaches.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 32:44

Thank you. I really appreciate you bringing up the finance piece because I think that is something that almost feels like the hidden curtain for faculty, or certain types of administrative roles. It's like somebody does some magic, and I just have to run.

Kristy Martyn (: 33:04

Right, right, right. When it actually is so critical to everything that we can do or are doing. So interesting. So yeah, that's been a big learning opportunity for me too.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 33:17

Thank you. So as you think about all the stuff you've done so far, what do you love most about your work and what you do?

Kristy Martyn (: 33:28

The people. The people. They're the best. I've always loved people. It's an odd answer maybe. But I respect individuals and differences, and I always feel like I can learn so much, and enjoy much more what I do and my life in working with people. And so important when we spend a lot of time in our jobs, the people that I work with. And I find Emory and our school, the people here are incredible. I am not ever wanting to leave. It's the kind of place where we work together in a way. The collaboration, I think. And I would say, it's striking to me after being here almost I guess it's about 10 years, the collaborative approach and hearing across campus and in our school, this very thing. It's a common frame in our university.

Kristy Martyn (: 34:35

And I had a question asked of me when I first came here, and actually Michigan was ranked higher, the School of Nursing was ranked higher than us at the time, although now we're number one. So we are definitely the best in the country, which is wonderful. US News and World Report. Thank you. So to think about the question someone asked me was, "Well, why would you want to go there?" As a step down is their opinion. It was not my opinion. I knew there were wonderful people here and great things happening. Wonderful leaders in the school and in the university. And it's absolutely been true.

Kristy Martyn (: 35:16

And then when I got here, I had questions asked of me about that comparison and I said, "Yes, we had fantastic programs and students also at Michigan. And what I didn't have there that I have here is this collaborative approach." And it's more of here's an issue we have to deal with, or we need or want to deal with. And instead of saying fix it, take care of it, it's much more of a let's do it together. That's beautiful. That's really good. And I feel that in the school and across the other schools across campus. So it's my favorite. That is the best.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 36:05

I love that. And I think about some of the words that are resonating out of this episode, community, collaboration, and the word, not that you used it, but compassion is really coming across.

Kristy Martyn (: 36:22

Oh yes, very good. Oh, I love that. Thank you. You've just given a good frame for what we've been talking about. Thank you. Compassion is perfect. Yeah. I'm glad you could sense that.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 36:32

That all came from you. Yes.

Kristy Martyn (: 36:37

Okay. That's great. It's true.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 36:38

Yeah. Yeah.

Kristy Martyn (: 36:40

Maybe that's a better thing to say than nice for me.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 36:45

Yep. Yep. Could be-

Kristy Martyn (: 36:46

I like nice too though.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 36:48

I do too. I do. Because we hear that. We don't hear people say, oh, you're too compassionate, but you do hear, you're too nice.

Kristy Martyn (: 36:57

Wow. There you go. Thank you.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 37:03

This has been a wonderful learning opportunity for both of us.

Kristy Martyn (: 37:08

That's really true. Thank you. That's great. I've enjoyed that very much.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 37:11

Oh good. So we got our last two core questions here. The first being, overall reflecting on your experiences to date, what would you say are your passions around education?

Kristy Martyn (: 37:25

Well, this is something we haven't talked about, but precision education has been a focus, Beth Ann Swan and I have been working on, and we just presented with School of Medicine on a recent conference webinar. And it really boils down to student or learner centered education. Learner centered education with a precision approach that you might think about, precision health, would be that we are not doing one-off education, but we're definitely getting away from the one size fits all. We have different styles of learning, we have different backgrounds, we have different needs, we have accommodations, we have a variety of things.

Kristy Martyn (: 38:12

And I hope at some point, this is my passion, that we will come as students into academia, and I hope our school will be a lead in this, and we'll say, I belong here. With all of my uniquenesses, this is the place for me. And I say it in part that way because we have a lot of second degree students who come, and we're probably odd and unusual and very different for many of them, as maybe other students too may experience that feeling. And instead to say this is the place for me.

Kristy Martyn (: 38:51

And thinking of that, I've boiled that, Beth Ann and I, a bit more down to the educational approaches we use. The starting point would be to understand who our students are, and what their learning styles and their needs are. Understanding that, and then providing options. And my favorite story related to this is when I was a freshman in a history class, and a first generation student, 18 years old, going to college, it's 45,000. Florida state was so big. I was shy, blah, blah, blah.

Kristy Martyn (: 39:29

And so I had a history class, and the history professor said, "You can choose. You can choose your type of assignment. You can write an essay exam, you can write a journal pretending you're back in the time." Yeah. Ooh, your face just lit up. That's what I chose. And I still remember what I learned in that course. Oh my gosh, now what is that, how many years later? I don't even know. And that's the best learning. It also gave me agency. It gave me confidence and so on.

Kristy Martyn (: 40:06

And then of course I say that knowing that that was in the 1970s, '74. And so now, the students now I'm sure are different. And have maybe some similarities to me then, but who knows what? And so we have to understand that. And get to know them, and then provide the education, or the way we educate in a way that works for them. Anyway, that's a long answer. Sorry. But it was just such a passion of mine. It stems from way back.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 40:42

And I am glad it has continued to run through what you do.

Kristy Martyn (: 40:46

I've been fortunate to have that. You're right. Yeah. It's good.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 40:52

So my last core question, what are some things you do outside of work? Because you are more than your career. What do you do outside of work to help you maintain joy in life and practice?

Kristy Martyn (: 41:07

Oh, lovely, lovely. Good question. Oh, spend time with my family. I have twins, they're my grandchildren, babies. They live not too far away, thank goodness. And then my son, they're his children and his wife. And then my daughter and her partner live here. So we spend time together. And then my sisters live here and my mom. I spend time with them. And my one sister owns a yoga studio, Zone of Light, right nearby. And so yoga has been a joy. A joy.

Kristy Martyn (: 41:41

And then reading. I read voraciously. And I've gotten into history. And I'm reading a book called... Well, I don't know the name. I never know the names. But it's about the history of United States. And I'm learning and learning and learning. And one of the Oxford faculty, Susan Ashford, gave me the book. I said, "Well, do you have a good US history book?" And she gave me this wonderful book. And anyway, there's a lot of joy in life, and there's so many sources of it. I could go on, but I won't.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 42:17

Oh, no. Thank you. Thank you. I think we could totally hear it in your voice, the joy as you described these various things. And so those were my core questions for you. Any last words of wisdom that you'd like to share with aspiring educators or education leaders before we end?

Kristy Martyn (: 42:35

Yes. I would say, and I don't think this is probably necessary for most people, but have the confidence to pursue what you want to pursue. And in this case, with administration in academia, we have opportunity for influence that I think is appealing to many people. And go for it. Go for it. And if there's anything I can do to help anyone, let me know. I would love to do that.

Ulemu Luhanga (: 43:02

Thank you. That I think is the perfect place for us to end this session. Thank you again, Kristy.

Kristy Martyn (: 43:09

Well, thank you. It's lovely to speak with you, and like you said, I learned as well. So thanks very much. Good.