Lessons from Nassoma Bumpers, PA

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:02

Hello listeners, welcome to Educational Landscapes, Lessons from Leaders. On today's episode, we are going to learn from Nassoma Bumpers. Welcome to the show, Somi.

Nassoma Bumpers: 00:14

Hey, thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:17

Oh, absolutely. So, to get us going, what is your, or are, your educational leadership titles?

Nassoma Bumpers: 00:27

All right. Well, I have quite a few, but my primary role is I'm the Chief of Education and Professional Development for our Office of Advanced Practice Providers. Then probably my next role would be the co-director of our Winship Oncology APP fellowship. The other thing that I really love is not education, but it's my patient care role, and I'm a physician assistant, of course I work at Winship and I take care of patients in our Rollins Immediate Care Center.

Ulemu Luhanga: 01:01

That's wonderful. Can you tell our listeners, in case they don't know, what is an APP, advanced practice professional?

Nassoma Bumpers: 01:12

Absolutely. Yes, that includes our physician assistants or associates. It includes our nurse practitioners and there's various nurse practitioners and certifications. It also includes our... oh, my mind is blanking. We have so many, like our nurse midwives and our anesthetists and it also includes that group, so we're all grouped under advanced practice providers.

Ulemu Luhanga: 01:40

Thank you. What do you do in your various educational leadership roles?

Nassoma Bumpers: 01:46

Sure. For my chief role, the best part about that is, so probably several years ago, Bonnie Proulx, who's our Director of Advanced Practice Providers, she joined Emory, and so she recognized the need for continuing education within Emory for our advanced practice providers. One of the great things I've had to do was I created our onboarding and orientation program for all APPs who come into Emory Healthcare. Different groups have different types of orientation, but we found that we wanted something that was more like a blanket for the whole system. That was great, and we set kind of timelines based on if you're a new graduate or have experience. But we found, as for most positions, and if you have a good orientation, you're more likely to stay within the system, so that has been very rewarding. I love working with new grads.

Nassoma Bumpers: 02:47

I found that's a very sensitive time when you're starting a new job. Even though I've been a PA for 20 years, I still remember my first day and how terrified I was and I had no orientation back then. You just went and you saw the patient. So it's been great to provide that opportunity, especially for our new grads. The other really fun... This is what I like about my job because I get to do fun things. We've created our own CME conference. It's a two or three day conference. We're going to be back in person this year, so that's great. It's called Updates in Medicine, so it's a really great conference where we give CME.

Nassoma Bumpers: 03:27

We also have our preceptor workshop. We have a skills lab and a ultrasound course. So all these things that we're able to offer our advanced practice providers, and Bonnie has been essential in making that happen for us. My role for our fellowship, that's also fun because our fellowship is for people who have, they completed their degrees, they're PAs and nurse practitioners, but they want to get a more intensive year in oncology. You really get to be creative. You get to give them both a good didactic experience and a good clinical experience. I get to use my creative brain a lot, which is wonderful.

Ulemu Luhanga: 04:11

I love that. That's so important to be able to use our creative brain, not just our, as people say, logic brain. The two work beautifully together. As I hear you, you really support the full spectrum from when they're coming in new, when they're on the way and so on, so that's wonderful. Congratulations.

Nassoma Bumpers: 04:31

Thank you.

Ulemu Luhanga: 04:33

What skills do you use, given all these things that you have to do?

Nassoma Bumpers: 04:39

Well, the biggest one I find is communication. It's very interesting. People have a lot of different ideas and thoughts and you meet so many different people from the healthcare team. You really want to go and I enjoy going to talk to everybody and see what do they think are the needs, or what have they identified might need some work or how can we educate the masses? I think the biggest one is communication. One that I am really good at, probably too much, is the nurturing role. You definitely learn to be a nurturer. Like I said, it's a scary time when you're starting your first job, lots of uncertainties, so I'm a nurturer. Most of my fellows and different people I meet call me "mama bear" because I am. I love you and I will get ferocious if you're not being treated well. I am definitely the mama bear. Nurturing, compassion, great communication, negotiating, mentoring, a lot of those kind of roles and skills and soft skills and things like that.

Ulemu Luhanga: 05:47

I love you highlighting the mama bear. I think a lot of us wouldn't mind having a mama bear to help us out in some of the situations we get into at work.

Nassoma Bumpers: 05:58

Oh, yeah.

Ulemu Luhanga: 05:58

What was your journey that led to these roles that you have?

Nassoma Bumpers: 06:06

A lot of it really just kind of fell into my lap, I think because I was always willing to say yes. Sometimes in my mind I thought, "Ooh, I don't know about this. I'm not so sure this is really meant for me." But instead my mouth said yes, my brain was going, "Don't do it." Because I was open to trying things, a lot of these opportunities fell in my lap. But I will say just kind of going back, I was a respiratory therapist before I became a PA, and so yeah, I precepted respiratory therapy students. When I finished PA school, I immediately, when I came to Emory, I connected with the School of Medicine and started precepting Emory PA students. For Winship, we wanted a dedicated clinical rotation so we actually created a clinical rotation for any APPs interested in oncology.

Nassoma Bumpers: 07:01

I was fortunate that Charice Gleason, she's our chief for Winship, but she's always been very kind of education minded and focused and realized the importance. She has been really one of my biggest encouragers, mentors and has been behind me and sometimes really just pushed me and said, "You're going to do it because I don't have anybody else that I think can do it as well as you, so you're going to do it." Sometimes she just made me do it, but then I was like, "Oh, thank God, I love it. Thank you so much for this opportunity." We started out by developing our clinical rotation and that was a great success. Then we were looking around and evaluating our APPs that we were hiring. A lot of them were brand new grads and going into oncology as a brand new grad is really tough. That's a huge kind of mountain to climb and it usually takes a good year. But we weren't doing them justice with orientation.

Nassoma Bumpers: 07:58

Then we kind of said, "Okay, let's create an actual orientation onboarding program." So we did that, and then when Bonnie started, she was same like mind. We were all very like-minded people, just like, "We need to do this for Emory Healthcare as a whole." Then I kind of morphed from Winship and moved into the Emory Healthcare setting, and then that's where I became the chief. Then we also decided, "We're going to go ahead and create this oncology fellowship." So all those just kind of came into my lap. I've also done some mentorship. I've created survivorship clinic. That was one I was really like, "Oh no, I don't want to do that. It's too much writing. You have to dictate all these notes." I'm like, "This is not for me. I hate dictating notes." But it really was a joy to work with the patients. They were like five and six years out from treatment, and so it was nice to see that they moved along with life.

Ulemu Luhanga: 08:59

Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. I love that you are highlighting that what I call being voluntold. It's sometimes quite beneficial in the long run.

Nassoma Bumpers: 09:12

I think they saw more in me at that time than I knew that was there, but thank goodness they did.

Ulemu Luhanga: 09:19

Indeed. Indeed. I'm sure the patients, the learners that you interact with are thinking, "Oh, thank goodness, Bonnie, for what you did, pushing her forward." As you reflect a bit, given the things that you do, what do you wish you knew before stepping into these roles?

Nassoma Bumpers: 09:42

Well, I think, and I kind of mentioned this, we had talked previously, but I didn't have a formal background in education. That's not really something that's offered for APPs, at least it wasn't back when I started, so I just would read independently, look at articles. I have another mentor, Dr. Mary Jo Lechowicz, who would work with me and say, "Hey, you should read this," or give me advice. But I didn't have anything like a formal education. Now though, there's so much more available. We have the WHEA Teaching Fellowship, you have programs that offer training in education, leadership, research. There's way more available. I highly recommend if you have interest in education or interest in precepting, to kind of go the next level and see what's out there, "What can I learn from," because it's made a huge difference. Actually, I'm walking, going backwards, but getting that foundation from the WHEA Teaching Fellowship, yeah, that's been great.

Ulemu Luhanga: 10:48

That's wonderful. As you talk about these additional opportunities that have come about for education, leadership, have you found that they are within Emory or within your professional organizations?

Nassoma Bumpers: 11:05

I would say so. There's a lot more available now within Emory that wasn't available before, and especially to APPs. It's not been extremely open for APPs. You've seen some of it for physicians or nurses, but now there's the opportunity for the fellowship is there, which is great, and they have advanced practice providers there. You can actually audit some classes.

Nassoma Bumpers: 11:31

Yeah, like at the Rollins School of Public Health, you can do some audits, so there's some more opportunities out there. You have some, which I would love to see offered within Emory, but there are some programs outside of Emory, like Vanderbilt is really good about offering advanced practice provider education. Then they also have, for nurses, they have the DNP, Doctor of Nursing Practice, and then they have a doctorate program for PAs now. It's interesting, when I look through the curriculum, I mean, it's so identical for the teaching fellowship. They have a teaching track, they have a leadership track and a teaching track. I thought, "Oh, look at this." But I got Emory's fellowship program, so I'm good. Yeah.

Ulemu Luhanga: 12:23

Very nice to hear.

Nassoma Bumpers: 12:26

Who knows? I mean, people are paying $40,000 and $50,000 to get their doctorate, so yeah, it's been amazing to get that opportunity here at Emory.

Ulemu Luhanga: 12:36

That is wonderful. That is wonderful. I know we're tapping into this idea of continuing professional development, and so are there any other things that you do in terms of supporting your continuing professional development, given all you have to do in your roles?

Nassoma Bumpers: 12:58

Well, one of the things that we're actively working for here in the Office of Advanced Practice is kind of building professional development for our group as a whole. We're working with preceptors, providing preceptor education. One of the other things we really want to do is to develop a research symposium. That's another area, we don't get a ton of exposure for research, but we do have APPs that are very interested in research and research education. We're working on building, creating a research symposium. There are a lot of outside opportunities, but we really want to bring those opportunities here to Emory and make it available.

Ulemu Luhanga: 13:48

Yeah, that would be good, because then you really can contextualize the offerings to align with the needs that are there in Emory.

Nassoma Bumpers: 13:57

Yep, absolutely.

Ulemu Luhanga: 13:59

Okay. What advice would you give someone interested in doing the same type of leadership roles you currently have?

Nassoma Bumpers: 14:09

Well, my first thing would be what you can do personally is your attitude. You want to always have an attitude of, "Well, yes, let me try that." When people come to you with ideas or thoughts, try to make yourself open for the experience. It is just normal to feel afraid, or I often have imposter syndrome about everything that I do, that's new, I'm thinking, "Why me? I don't know what they're seeing this... Uh-uh." That's always my immediate. But try to have confidence, open yourself up to new opportunities and ideas, because usually it just is something that kind of falls into your lap. So try to have the right mindset of, "Oh, let me try something different." It's okay to have failures. We're going to have failures. That's the first thing is just having the right attitude and being willing to learn something new.

Nassoma Bumpers: 15:08

I would say definitely look and see what opportunities are available, whether it's here at Emory, if you're listening and you're from somewhere else, look and see what's available within your institution. Look outside, see what programs, things like that. But try to find something where you can get a good kind of foundation and learn the terminology and the different methods. Also think about the group that you're going to be working with. Is it young adult learners? Are they new to their profession? Are they somebody who's like mid-career? Those are the main things, is try to find ways to support your continuing education as well.

Ulemu Luhanga: 15:54

Thank you. That is very insightful, especially, as you said, the importance of attitude. I think it's that attitude that probably helps you get past that imposter syndrome.

Nassoma Bumpers: 16:07

Yes, I agree. I always, there's like this... I am truly a lifelong learner. I really enjoy learning. It's just something about it. Every day, it's something, whether it's a patient that I see and I go, "Oh, I've never heard of this," or just being a lifelong learner is just... It's wonderful, and I encourage people to always be that way.

Ulemu Luhanga: 16:35

Very wise words from an education leader. As you think about the stuff that you do, the roles you have, how do you view succession planning?

Nassoma Bumpers: 16:49

Good question. I've been here 20 years. I am looking at retiring by my 25th year. As I think about it, we're not always good about thinking ahead. I am a firm believer that if the person in the role has been there for 20, 25, 30 years, that's just too long. You need fresh ideas. I've never wanted to be in a spot for 20 years, so when I took this role as chief of education, I thought, "Oh, I could do this role for about five years, kind of reach some of the goals that I want to set, and then hand off to the next person." As I've gone along and met different people, there are definitely some key people in my mind who I would like to have as part of my succession plan. But I do really recommend that when you take on a role, think ahead, identify people. You don't want what you're doing to become stagnant, so I'm a firm believer in succession planning.

Nassoma Bumpers: 17:55

Also, what if some something happened? How are you going to move things along? So I do, I think about that, but I've identified some people that I've worked with really close, I think they're going to be wonderful, like Takeia Horton and Danielle Roberts, they're amazing. They love education. They do all the things that they do completely for free. You realize that in education, a lot of the things you do is just your blood, sweat, and tears. There's not money or things associated with it. You do it for the love, and those are the people that I look for. You're doing things for the love of, whether it's the person, your profession. That's what I look for in succession.

Ulemu Luhanga: 18:43

That is so important. I love that you... As you said, we don't often think ahead, but it is important for us to, because life happens.

Nassoma Bumpers: 18:53

Yeah, absolutely.

Ulemu Luhanga: 18:57

How do you support or expand education in your profession?

Nassoma Bumpers: 19:03

I think the big thing is offering a lot more opportunities. I know I've mentioned this over and over again, but I can just tell you there was just so much that we didn't have available. It's just, oh, it's so wonderful to be able to have these options. I do, I want to be a huge part of giving opportunities and options for our APPs. It's been interesting as I've been in this role, you realize as you talk to other organizations and groups outside of Emory that they feel the same. They're missing opportunities for their people. It's been wonderful to meet with these different groups and go, "Oh, let's collaborate. Let's figure out how we can advance all of us and give these wonderful opportunities to people." That's one way, it's definitely collaborating not only within Emory, but outside of Emory as well.

Nassoma Bumpers: 19:56

But that is one of my goals before I retire, is to make sure we have something for research, make sure we have something for leadership, make sure we have something for education, and mentorship. Those are kind of my four things that I really want to expand on, not just for here at Emory, but outside of Emory as well.

Ulemu Luhanga: 20:19

That's wonderful, and I'm sure there are many people who will benefit from the foundation you're setting up. As you think about that, and you have done some amazing things already so far, what has been one of your greatest successes thus far?

Nassoma Bumpers: 20:41

I would say it would have to be starting our oncology fellowship. That is Charise and I worked on that and talked about it for years and years, and it's like, "Oh, we should do it, but." You know there's always a "but." But then at some point it's like, "We need to just do this. It may fail, we don't know." But again, that's one of those where I mentioned you just have to kind of jump out there and not everything works, but we just decided we're going to do it. We went to a couple of conferences. APP fellowships were relatively new, so yeah, yeah, that was kind of a newer concept, fellowships and residencies. They were only maybe one or two in oncology at all, so it's like, "We're going to just do this." We just jumped out there. We kind of built things as we went. It was a real act of just faith.

Nassoma Bumpers: 21:40

The one thing I'll say I'm very appreciative is that our leadership in Winship, our physician leaders, our nurse leaders, everybody was just really super supportive, just how we made all this happen. They've continued to be just really supportive and wonderful. Our next group, well, we're graduating our fourth cohort Friday, and our next, fifth cohort starts on Tuesday. It's been an amazing experience. I think what I love about it the most is every APP that starts, it's really great to see how they are when they start and then how they are at the end. It's amazing to see the confidence levels. I have one, Julie, that was our fellow. I always tease her. I say, "Girl, you have surpassed me." Now she teaches me. I work in our intermediate care and she's more urgent care oriented than I am. I'm used to being in a clinic. I'm like, "Oh, what do I do?" But she teaches me now, and it's so amazing to see the growth. That's the part, I'm just so, so, so proud of that accomplishment and just so happy that everybody's been really supportive.

Ulemu Luhanga: 23:01

Congratulations. Four cohorts and a fifth around the corner.

Nassoma Bumpers: 23:06

Yeah, I love them. They're my babies. I just love it.

Ulemu Luhanga: 23:11

How many babies do you have per cohort?

Nassoma Bumpers: 23:14

Let's see. We usually have at least four a year.

Ulemu Luhanga: 23:17

Okay. Is it a one-year fellowship?

Nassoma Bumpers: 23:22

A one-year fellowship. We used to have them split where we would do two, and then every six months we take two. But that was a lot of kind of, yeah... Now we just take four every year.

Ulemu Luhanga: 23:36

Okay. Yeah. Great, great, great. As you said, you learned as you went, right?

Nassoma Bumpers: 23:41

Yes. Yes. Lots of trial and error.

Ulemu Luhanga: 23:47

Building on that trial and erroring, what are, or were, your biggest growth opportunities thus far?

Nassoma Bumpers: 23:57

Biggest growth opportunities? I would say definitely stepping outside of Winship. That was a huge growth opportunity and a huge experience. I have been a Winship person since I started in 2002. That has been my home. I've gone from multiple different... I've probably done every role you can do within Winship, like everyone, I've done solid tumor, liquid tumor, transplant, lung cancer. I've done them all. When the opportunity came with Bonnie to step outside and work within Emory Healthcare as a whole, I was very nervous. As I thought, "Oh, I'll be meeting all these different people, and it's a whole different world outside of Winship." We're super protected in our little oncology bubble. But that was a huge opportunity and I've met so many people. That's probably the best part, is you really meet a lot of different people from the other divisions and the hospital. I've met many different physicians and APPs and nurses, and so that has been amazing. I've really enjoyed that. I would think that's probably been my biggest growth opportunity there. Did you know we have people in LaGrange?

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:15

No.

Nassoma Bumpers: 25:16

Yes.

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:18

Wow.

Nassoma Bumpers: 25:19

We actually have clinical practices down there. We've got the whole Emory at LaGrange down there.

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:24

That is amazing. I think sometimes I only think about the network within kind of the greater Atlanta, and I never really think beyond.

Nassoma Bumpers: 25:33

Yeah. There's all these people out there. I had no clue. [inaudible 00:25:39].

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:41

That is wonderful. Amazing stuff. I feel like this is going to be a difficult one for you, but let's see. What do you love most about your work and what you do? I feel like there'll be many things.

Nassoma Bumpers: 25:56

It is, there are many things, and I always go back to still my first love and I have patient care once a week, but I still love my Mondays with my patients. That still is the heart of everything that I do. I feel strongly if you educate your APPs or anybody working with patients, if you offer education, you offer ways for them to be happy and to love their job, it always affects your patients. They are really, truly at the heart of why I do the things I do. I do, I love my patients. So if I had to pick one, that would be my first one. Number two of course is going to be my fellowship, just because, again, those are my babies. Then the third would be working with the other groups within the organization. Again, I think I found my niche with that group that has just graduated.

Nassoma Bumpers: 26:55

There's like this kind of... It's not a weird space, but it's just this little space from when you graduate from school and you're starting your first job, and within that six months to a year, there's so much vulnerability there. You feel like somewhere around six to nine month mark, you go, "I don't know what I'm doing. I should rethink my life." You really do have those moments, and that's everybody. Whatever you were doing before, you probably were pretty good. Then you go into this place where you're new and you don't know anything, and you're taking care of patients and "What if I cause harm?" There's a lot of anxieties and insecurities when you start, but I feel strongly how we take care of those providers really sets the tone for the rest of their career.

Nassoma Bumpers: 27:50

If you have a horrible experience as a brand new provider, your confidence, it takes years to regain. I feel very strongly that we should treat our new providers well and make sure we give them the education and training that they deserve. That's for any new providers, nurses, doctors, pharmacists. It really matters. First year really matters, and it sets the tone for the rest of their life, so that's another real big passion of mine there.

Ulemu Luhanga: 28:25

Yeah, I love the... I'll sum it up as setting them up for success.

Nassoma Bumpers: 28:32

Exactly. Yep. That's exactly right.

Ulemu Luhanga: 28:38

As we are coming to our last questions, overall, reflecting on your experiences to date, what would you say are your passions around education, or your education philosophy?

Nassoma Bumpers: 28:54

I would say that the biggest thing is probably developing, getting a good foundation, realizing the importance of education, finding a good mentor. That is just so important, having a really good mentor, and definitely developing that love of education. See if you can find, and if there's nothing available in your areas, to ask about it. Say, "Hey, I'm really interested in training this person to do this," or "I'm really interested in helping with orientation or onboarding or providing education in some format," even if it's something as simple as providing education to the nurses or to the APPs, doing rounds, things like that.

Nassoma Bumpers: 29:48

I would say finding those opportunities and really going with your voice and the love for education, I would say are the main things. Like I said, finding that little area that really just gives you joy because that's what keeps you going. Like I said, I'm 20 years in and I still love my job. My husband says to me, "You're a rare person that really still loves their job after 20 something years." I'm like, "I do. I love my job." I drive my gazillion miles to work and fight the traffic. I look at other jobs as I drive by and thinking, "Oh, I could be there in five minutes." But I come right on to Emory and do this because this is what I love.

Ulemu Luhanga: 30:34

I know we're doing an audio, but I want people to know the giant smile on your face as you said that is so infectious.

Nassoma Bumpers: 30:51

Oh. [laughter]

Ulemu Luhanga: 30:51

Recognizing you are more than what you do at work, that you have to drive so far to get to, what are some things you do outside of work to help you maintain joy in life and practice?

Nassoma Bumpers: 31:07

Excellent. Well, I always tease Bonnie and say, "Everything I learned about leadership, I learned in the PTO." I have worked with the PTO at my son's school. I've been a Girl Scout troop leader for years. I just stopped when my daughter reached 11th grade, we just quit, from when she was in preschool to 11th grade, so Girl Scout troop leader. I enjoy, I'm a quilter. Yeah, I'm a quilter. That's what I love to do, make quilts, and also do some crocheting. I like to do crafty things, so that's something that came on way later in life. Yeah, I didn't do any of that as a child. I learned to use a sewing machine at probably, I think I was like 35 or 36 years old. I'm a member of our church's quilting guild. I'm the youngest member. At age 48, I'm the youngest member, but they baby me and love on me, and so that's the main things. I have a husband and my two children and two dogs, and a horse.

Ulemu Luhanga: 32:21

Ooh, and a horse. I love it.

Nassoma Bumpers: 32:24

He just eats his weight in gold and does absolutely nothing.

Ulemu Luhanga: 32:32

And here I was waiting for you to tell me that, "Oh, because oncology," or you were like, "He's a therapy horse."

Nassoma Bumpers: 32:41

No, he's a big, fat, lazy thing who just eats.

Ulemu Luhanga: 32:48

Living his best life is what I'm hearing.

Nassoma Bumpers: 32:50

He really is.

Ulemu Luhanga: 32:54

Oh, I love the range of things that you have to support your joy in life and practice. Those are my core questions for you. But before we come to an end, are there any last words of wisdom that you would like to share with aspiring educators or education leaders?

Nassoma Bumpers: 33:21

I think probably, if I had to say anything, again, it's very important to find a mentor, try to find somebody as you're looking ahead, thinking about your plans. That's one thing too, is always to be looking kind of ahead to see what you might be interested in. But look for those people who are already doing the role that you want to do, to look ahead. If you think you want to do education, look to those people who are already doing it and talk to them. It's good. A lot of people are willing to be mentors. I have a mentee now, and I've never done this before, but I love it. It's been great. But she reached out to me and said, "Hey, I would love to do some of the things that you're doing now. Would you mentor me?" But I thought, "This was a really great idea, wish somebody had told me that." It was a great idea. Look ahead and see what people are doing, whether it's leadership or education, or try to find those people who are doing what you want to do. That's probably my biggest take home.

Ulemu Luhanga: 34:28

Thank you. I think that is a powerful message to end off on. With that, thank you again for joining us.

Nassoma Bumpers: 34:37

Thank you so much. It's been a great opportunity. I appreciate it.