Lessons from Ryan Haumschild PharmD, MS, MBA, CPEL

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:02

Hello listeners, welcome to Educational Landscapes, Lessons From Leaders. On today's episode, we are going to learn from Ryan Haumschild. Welcome to the show, Ryan.

Ryan Haumschild: 00:14

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:17

Wonderful. So to get us going, what is your educational leadership title or titles?

Ryan Haumschild: 00:24

Yeah, so I am the Director of Pharmacy here at Emory Healthcare in the Winship Cancer Institute. And that spans both the residency training, some of the work here on the university side as well as healthcare.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:36

Oh, I did not know we had a pharmacy residency. How long has that been around?

Ryan Haumschild: 00:42

So we've had a pharmacy residency, I think around since the early 1990s. Our longest standing pharmacy residency... Actually, there's a few, so I don't want to misspeak, but I think it's nutritional support and oncology. And since then we've built up a number of other pharmacy residencies across all of our campuses and different subspecialties as well.

Ulemu Luhanga: 01:02

That is amazing. Awesome stuff. So what do you do in your role?

Ryan Haumschild: 01:09

Yeah, so I'm very thankful for my role. As the director of pharmacy, I am a leader over pharmacy services and get to oversee a number of different aspects. First, when you think about pharmacy, it's the patient. I get to oversee the pharmacy as we interact with patients, whether they're picking up retail prescriptions from our retail pharmacies, whether they're driving medications to their bedside, we meet the patient in different portions of their journey. So whether they're getting an infusible medication or a chronic disease in oncology, I oversee the pharmacists that interact with them in clinics or the pharmacists that are preparing the pharmacy technicians that are preparing the medications for them.

Ryan Haumschild: 01:48

And then lastly, in my role, I'm involved on the clinical delivery of services utilizing the latest data from clinical trials to evaluate medications from a clinical efficacy, safety perspective and economic standpoint and build out order sets to aid our providers in the best selection of therapy. And then lastly, since I'm a director of pharmacy, I also have to understand the business impact. How do we balance the financial sustainability, the financial strength of the work that we do, and couple that with the great clinical service that we provide as well.

Ulemu Luhanga: 02:20

That is amazing. So important. I think when I listen to a lot of people in leadership roles, especially those that have to do with education, there's not as much thought of the business side and how much that gets affected. So I really appreciate that you really meld all of that together.

Ryan Haumschild: 02:43

Yeah, that's something I actually learned early on. And we may talk about it, but early in my journey, I always knew I wanted to go into pharmacy. I wanted a clinical doctorate, I wanted to be able to impact patients, improve the safety of the medications they're taking. But I recognized business was important, so I actually got my MBA prior to getting my doctorate in pharmacy. And I think the coupling of the two has made me really dynamic and I think it's better enabled me to provide great care to our patients, but also provide great oversight of the education of the services we provide to Emory University and Emory Healthcare. So you nailed it, in terms of having a balanced approach is always very important.

Ulemu Luhanga: 03:20

Indeed. Indeed. Thank you. So given the broad range of things that you have to do in your role, what skills do you use in order to get that stuff done?

Ryan Haumschild: 03:32

Yeah, I'd like to say that I can just get things done on my own, but that is by far from the truth. I think the number one thing I do is I need to work well with others. I need to be a collaborator. I need to be someone that I can be able to have shared wins. And so I do that on a frequent basis. So I might be working with our nursing partners or some of our providers and physicians in order to roll out a new medication to transition it from a clinic to an infusion center. I need to work with finance to be able to speak to the billing units that will be associated with that medication, and then our residents who might be developing the patient education for the patient, for the providers, and making sure that we coordinate that appropriately.

Ryan Haumschild: 04:08

So I would say that a lot of the work that I do has to do with being emotionally intelligent, understanding who are the key stakeholders that need to be brought in that really do understand the unique considerations of a project. And then at the end of the day, holding myself and others accountable to make sure we meet turnaround times appropriately, make sure things are built in our EMR appropriately so it creates a seamless experience for the patient at the front and the end of the continuum of care.

Ulemu Luhanga: 04:35

Wonderful, wonderful. Thank you. So you started to give us a little bit about your background, but I would love to hear more about your journey that led to this current role.

Ryan Haumschild: 04:48

Yeah, well thank you for asking. I've always been interested in pharmacy, and luckily I had probably the best example anyone could ask for in my father. If I could be half as great as my father was, I'll consider that a success. And I have three young girls, so I try to strive for that on a daily basis. But got exposure early on into pharmacy, recognized that I want to make a career. And so started with my bachelor's degree in health services administration, then went on to get my MBA and then finally went to pharmacy school at the University of Florida and got my doctorate at pharmacy. It was there that really, I started to learn about leadership. I was voted class president, and so I had the opportunity to lead a number of my colleagues and learned quickly the most by failing as a leader in ways where I would be asked to do things or execute on things with the student government and didn't move as quickly or get them done.

Ryan Haumschild: 05:36

And I learned soon after that you can be great at what you do, but you have to be able to execute and work with others. And so I think that was where I learned that leadership had such an important role to do those lessons. From there, I had the opportunity to intern at Johns Hopkins and had exposure with an administrator there over pharmacy services and realized that I really like the clinical world, infectious diseases, oncology, but as an administrator I could really help develop systems and processes that would have wide impact. And so from there, when I graduated with my doctorate of pharmacy, I matched in the pharmacy residency at the Ohio State University and did my PGY-1, PGY-2 there, and my MS in pharmaceutical administration. And I think that's really where I solidified a lot of the skill sets that helped me be successful. And then ultimately that is where I came post-residency to Emory and started my career here.

Ulemu Luhanga: 06:27

Awesome. So as somebody who didn't know a lot about pharmacy education, how long is a doctorate and how long are residencies typically?

Ryan Haumschild: 06:37

Yeah, absolutely. So your undergrad is going to be four years and your doctorate is going to be four years as well. And then residency can range. You can do a PGY-1 and then have a pharmacy practice residency, which is more general. And then your second year you specialize. So whether that's oncology, solid organ transplant, pain and palliative, infectious disease, the list goes on. And then that's really the terminal. And then there are some areas where you can go onto a fellowship post residency, but that I would say is more the exception and not the norm. PGY-2 is typically considered your terminal residency training.

Ulemu Luhanga: 07:12

Okay, thank you. Thank you so much for that. So, as you think about the leadership opportunities you've had over time, including this one, what do you wish you knew before stepping into those types of roles?

Ryan Haumschild: 07:29

I'm someone that spent a lot of years in education, right? 12 years of education. What I've realized is it's more of how you can work with people. What is your demeanor? Are you humble? Are you committed to friendliness? And that actually is even more important than how smart you are. You can be the smartest person in the room, but if you can't work well with others, if you can't gain consensus, if you can't incorporate other individual's ideas into the end goal, you're not going to be near as successful. And not that I was cocky coming in, but I think that's a key area that maybe wasn't expressed to me as much during my training, but I've definitely learned that over the past 10 years here at Emory.

Ulemu Luhanga: 08:07

So important, the people skills take you a long way. Deep. So thinking about all that you do, what continuing professional development do you do in order to keep up with the needs of your role?

Ryan Haumschild: 08:22

I feel like I'm always going to be a lifetime learner, and that is something that I really feel is important, and recognizing that the healthcare delivery and the healthcare market is changing it's dynamic environment. And so I need to make sure that I'm staying up to speed. So one of the ways I do that is I do serve on an editorial board for a leading journal in managed care called the American Journal of Managed Care. It has one of the highest impact factors. And so as I'm reviewing journal articles for publication, it keeps me up to speed on what are the latest considerations, what is pharmacoeconomics and new legislation like the Inflation Reduction Act mean for me and my practice, what does it mean for patients? And they'll cover lives that fall under those employer plans.

Ryan Haumschild: 09:05

Another area is I keep staying involved and active in organizations such as the American Society of Health System Pharmacy, where I work with other pharmacy leaders across the country to tackle new and emerging concepts within pharmacy, learning how to deliver the best care to our patients.

Ryan Haumschild: 09:22

And then one of the things that I'm very proud about is as I've had my past 10-year career here, I've realized that there needs to be some type of certification that required ongoing, that speaks to the competency that I developed, the experience that I developed and kind of differentiates myself from others. And I did that pursuing ASHP's new certified pharmacy executive leader or CPL designation. And so it was a capstone course where first they reviewed all of my background. I had to fill out a lot of paperwork, even back to my training, my experience, my oversight, scope and responsibilities. They validated that. And then brought me on site with other executive pharmacy leaders from across the country. We went through a week long intensive training, and then I have ongoing continuing education that I can complete, but that is a great way for me to stay up to speed on really the latest things that pharmacy leaders are tackling, concepts, education, information. And I think that has been probably the key area and the key way for me to stay up to speed with everything that's going on.

Ulemu Luhanga: 10:22

Wonderful. Congratulations. I know what it's like to have to put in all that kind of paperwork and go, okay, what's coming out on the other end?

Ryan Haumschild: 10:30

Thank you so much. Yeah, definitely excited, but definitely the beginning, right? Where now I've got a lifeline opportunity to continue to learn and keep that certification as I progress throughout my career.

Ulemu Luhanga: 10:41

Indeed, indeed. So as you think about that and other things, what advice would you give someone interested in doing the same type of leadership role that you have?

Ryan Haumschild: 10:56

I feel like leadership is such an opportunity to make an impact. I feel like there is probably a shortage of pharmacy leaders in this country as well. And so if you're really interested, I would say, number one, really understand what is your core driver? Is it people? Is it the patient? Is it giving that therapeutic benefit and safety? I think all of those are great things to be associated with. But I think when you're looking at leadership, make sure you also have a solid clinical foundation. I have the opportunity to oversee many different types of pharmacists, pharmacy technicians, buyers, but I need to make sure, number one, that I'm not afraid to do the work and I understand the work that they're doing. And building that strong clinical foundation has been so important. And then from there, make sure as a leader, you're also seeking leadership development.

Ryan Haumschild: 11:42

That is a skill set that needs to be continued to be developed, understood, and recognized too in a leader that there are so many opportunities to make widespread impact. It may not be you, you may not be the person getting all the credit, but if your team is getting the credit, they're finding success in their role, they have high engagement scores and patient care is improving, that's really what should drive your interest. And I would tell people that you don't have to be the smartest person in the room, just put it forth the effort, be familiar with pulling together great talent and great minds, and you can be extremely successful. And again, in a leadership role, I think you're able to make widespread impact. You may not be one-on-one with that patient, but your team may be, and through your leadership you have an opportunity to really transform care.

Ulemu Luhanga: 12:29

Very transformative words there. As I just think about that advice and how important it is to... I've heard a lot of people talk about what is your passion or purpose and really aligning with that. And so I really appreciate when you talked about trying to work out where are you coming from in the work that you do. So building on that, can you share with us how you view succession planning?

Ryan Haumschild: 12:59

I think succession planning is so important. I don't think there's a leader out there that can do it all on their own or should think that they're irreplaceable. And so, one of the things that I've tried to do throughout my career is really develop leaders that I get to work with and recruit who can take on the scope of work. And so within succession planning, I want to make sure that I'm always keeping my management team exposed to different topics that I'm seeing. We have a chance to talk through different scenarios that are coming up that maybe they may not have the capacity to be involved with, or maybe it's not appropriate for them to be involved with at this time, but I'm giving them the exposure. I'm giving them projects that give them opportunities to be in front of other executive leaders across Emory Healthcare and Emory University, and that they can learn sometimes to fail.

Ryan Haumschild: 13:42

I'll be right there to make sure our patient isn't impacted, but maybe it might be falling short of a timeline or maybe it's developing a proforma and I have a chance to review and make sure that proforma is complete before we send it out. And I think through those environments, my team learns the scope of work. They recognize it's not dependent just on Ryan Haumschild, but other people can step in if something were to happen. And I think ultimately that has been my goal.

Ryan Haumschild: 14:05

And then just lastly is supporting my team and getting involved with activities outside the four walls of Emory University and Emory Healthcare. Making sure that they're on these section advisory groups for professional societies. They're having a chance to build their network, so when the time comes for any opportunities inside our organization or even external, they're prepared, they have the right experience, they have the right networking, and ultimately they can be successful in making that transition.

Ulemu Luhanga: 14:31

Wonderful. So important. And as I think about as you're talking about networking and these opportunities that you provide your team to support them, I would love to hear more about how you go about supporting or expanding education in your profession or through your role.

Ryan Haumschild: 14:55

Education is important, and we talked about the pharmacy residency program, and actually that's probably one of the biggest ways outside of educating pharmacy students and doing continuing education, I really try to focus on three areas because I feel like they're so important. So number one, train the next generation of caregivers. That involves our pharmacy students coming from the doctoral pharmacy programs across the country that do internships with us, that may have early pharmacy experiences with us. It comes to building our residency program, making sure that we have succession planning for people that are leaving the workforce, that we're developing that expertise.

Ryan Haumschild: 15:28

Because I think as you train residents, the residents gain more skills, they're able to aid the health system and also the preceptors are able to stay on the top of their knowledge and competency because working with these residents.

Ryan Haumschild: 15:40

And then I think thirdly, I want to make sure I'm participating in continuing education, educating the workforce of my peers, my colleagues, but that also forces me to be in the literature, making sure I'm reviewing the information so I can present on it in a coherent and succinct manner.

Ryan Haumschild: 15:54

And so I think those are the different ways. And I would just focus one more on pharmacy residency training as it relates to Emory University and Emory Healthcare. We've been able to expand the programs that we provide because we're the only NCI designated comprehensive Cancer Center in Georgia. We've expanded our PGY-2, so postgraduate year two pharmacy residents, and now we have four spots in oncology. They've been able to intern in our inpatient environments, in our clinics, and our infusions specialty and retail pharmacies and patient education. And I think it's added a lot of value back to the organization, but then at the same time, they're able to take those lessons learned and go elsewhere.

Ryan Haumschild: 16:30

And if I can share maybe our four most recent PGY-2 graduates that are still with us that will be completing the residency training in July have already accepted positions. One gets to stay here at Emory University and the Winship Cancer Institute, which we're extremely excited about. One is going to Fred Hutch out in Seattle to bring their training and education there. Another is going to MD Anderson in Texas, and our fourth is going to Intermountain Health out west. And so I think those are awesome experiences where now we've educated our team, but they're going to take their education and go to these other organizations and educate further from there.

Ulemu Luhanga: 17:07

Oh, I love that. One of the images that comes to mind as I listen to that is when they talk about dropping a pebble into water and that ripple effect. And so that's great. Congratulations.

Ryan Haumschild: 17:23

That's a very soothing and accurate description.

Ulemu Luhanga: 17:28

So as I think about, that's an amazing success right there. And so I would love to hear what do you think has contributed to your biggest successes thus far?

Ryan Haumschild: 17:43

I would say no success comes by doing it by myself. And I'm very, very of that. First, I need to give success to family and support. We talked about my father and mother. Both of them, by the way, are excellent. My father was in pharmacy, but my mother was an incredible role model. Both of them were highly engaged throughout my entire life, and I'm very thankful for that leadership early on. And I would say even support to my wife, who we have three beautiful daughters. There's a lot going on, but she consistently encourages me to take time to continue my professional development. If I need to spend time later working with an individual employee she gives that support. And I hope that I can return that as well. But also the leaders that I've been involved in.

Ryan Haumschild: 18:28

I think from an executive leader standpoint, I've had a lot of opportunity to grow my own competency, take on projects that are meaningful to our patients. It's allowed me to grow on my understanding, and then I'm able to build upon that when I train others. I think you learn from residents and trainees and new employees that are asking the right questions that sometimes push us out of our comfort zone when maybe historically we haven't considered a certain approach. And they'll be the ones that say, well, why haven't we thought about this? And ultimately, that makes me better.

Ryan Haumschild: 18:55

And so I would actually say that the last part of my success, this is the team that I surround myself with. I try to hire very intelligent individuals, but like we talked about earlier, those that have good emotional intelligence, that are humble, that care about others. And I think by developing a strong team around me, I've become better. And I think none of my successes are with me personally, but it's that huge support structure that I think has enabled us to be so highly successful for our patients and our providers.

Ulemu Luhanga: 19:23

So important. And as I listened to that idea of support structure and you talking about your parents, it's wonderful to hear how you've had a support structure all along the way, and you have worked on creating support structures for others as well. So, recognizing you did mention you are a lifelong learner, what would you say your biggest growth opportunities are right now?

Ryan Haumschild: 19:52

Yeah, I think there's probably always going to be growth opportunities. I'd say one in my growth opportunity is probably just myself and working. I'm someone that's very exuberant, very passionate, but that's important, but you have to make sure that you're catering that to the right crowd. And so, I think that's one thing that I always continue to look at and making sure that I might be excited about an idea. If I look at it from another perspective, maybe someone isn't as excited or maybe they have an alternative viewpoint. And so how do I make sure to continue to be objective in that format? I think too, as I develop, it's also making sure that I have the entire system in mind when making decisions. And what I mean by that isn't just pharmacy, it's pharmacy may lose in a certain scenario, but if Emory Healthcare, Emory University wins, that's a great thing.

Ryan Haumschild: 20:38

And so making sure I make myself intentionally aware that I'm passionate about pharmacy, I'm passionate about training the next generation of caregivers and our patients, but pharmacy doesn't always have to be the winner. And if something's working better for nursing, that's an important win. And I think those are the areas where I've started to develop my career into more of that system-wide, I would say, executive lens that sees things outside of just a pharmacy scope. And I'm excited that I'm starting to transition to that in my career. I think that's an important journey that I'm on, and I think, if anything, it'll benefit the patient even more because it's looking at it from the broad viewpoint.

Ulemu Luhanga: 21:16

Indeed, indeed. That system perspective is so important in so many spaces. As you reflect on what you have done so far in your experiences, what would you say you love most about your work and what you do?

Ryan Haumschild: 21:33

Yeah, you heard me mention I'm passionate. And I think what keeps me here day in, day out is our patients, our providers. But I think how much I enjoy the work that I do. And so I would say what brings me joy in practice is developing foresight and evolving care models. How can we provide care to the patient that brings it to them? We did that at the Winship at Emory Midtown where now care is brought directly to the patient. So, instead of the patient going to see their surgical oncologist, medical oncologist and go to infusion center, they come to one spot, everyone comes to them, and that includes the medication. So there we built a pharmacy where we actually bring medications up via smart elevators to the patient and deliver it to their bedside. I think that's innovation and care. I think joy in practice is how can pharmacists be interacting more with patients?

Ryan Haumschild: 22:20

We developed a pharmacotherapy clinic model where patients can schedule an appointment with a pharmacist. If you're a bone marrow transplant patient, you can meet with a pharmacist and have your drug interactions reviewed in real time before you're admitted. If you have counseling on a GI medication that maybe has unique injection considerations, you can spend direct time with a pharmacist. And I think that's what gets me excited. We're reinventing not only the profession of pharmacy, we're reinventing the way patients can interact, but we're also complimenting the rest of our care partners to make sure that we also are being, I would say, coordinated in our approach to patient care. And that's what's been such exciting times for me so far.

Ulemu Luhanga: 22:59

That is fantastic. And now as I think about your pharmacist being able to be so engaged with the patients and with their colleagues, how many pharmacists are there? It sounds like a lot of work.

Ryan Haumschild: 23:17

They are across the system, not just everyone that reports to me. There's hundreds of pharmacists and hundreds of pharmacy technicians. And let me tell you, the pharmacy technicians too, if I don't want to underscore the importance, they are what I call the MVPs of pharmacy. They're the ones that are in the hoods. They're the pharmaceutical biological safety cabinets doing the compounding in such an essential part. But there's so many people and so many varying job titles from clinical pharmacy specialists to clinical pharmacists, but they're all working together. I think of it really as a symphony, right? Everyone has a unique role that they're playing. It's clearly defined. And if we all do our roles best, we compliment our nurses, we compliment our providers, and then the patient gets the benefit in the long run.

Ulemu Luhanga: 23:57

Thank you. And you actually answered one of my other questions, which was going to be, what does a pharmacy tech do versus a pharmacist? And you built it in that response. Thank you. Overall, as you reflect on your experiences to date, what would you say your passions are around education right now? Or what is your educational philosophy?

Ryan Haumschild: 24:20

Yeah, I think number one, education is so important, and that's probably why I am at an academic medical center, is I want to interact with some of the teaching. I want to be learning the latest therapeutics. I want to be learning what are the latest delivery models of care. My philosophy in teaching is really to sit down with individuals, whether it's lecturing in a classroom setting or having more one-on-one time when residents are on rotation with me. But I think first off, understand what is the baseline understanding? And then starting with why are we going to be learning this specific concept? What's the benefit to the patient, what's the benefit to the end user? And then starting from there.

Ryan Haumschild: 24:56

I like to engage. I'm a kinesthetic learner, so I often will get out the whiteboard and I'll draw things out, I'll walk people through it. And I think that's really how I've been best to engage. And then I also love educating patients on different treatments. Why are you getting this treatment? How do I engage you in the learning process? So I'm big on shared decision making from an educational standpoint in the classroom, shared decision making at the bedside, and I think that draws in the audience or whoever you're working with best, and I think ultimately allows the concepts to really resonate.

Ulemu Luhanga: 25:30

Wonderful, wonderful. So I recognize I've asked a lot about your job, your career, but you are more than what you do. So what are some things you do outside of work to help maintain joy in life and practice?

Ryan Haumschild: 25:47

Yeah. Well, I'd say my number one job is being a husband and a dad. I love that, and I really want to make sure that that's probably something that stays at the forefront of all that I do. So I'm a basketball coach for a kindergarten girls basketball team, and one of my favorite jobs. I'm also a mystery reader for my youngest daughter at her school when I get to come in. And then I would say just making sure I'm a supportive spouse, which I think really goes a long way, especially for the support that I receive. And then if I'm talking about hobbies outside of work, I am a big runner. I love to run. It's an area for me to clear my head. I really reflect a lot during a run, but I will say I'm not a morning runner. So a lot of people are morning runners. I have not made the switch yet. It probably could come, but I will run after work, and I think it gives me time to reflect on the day, kind of decompress, so I bring my best self to my family.

Ryan Haumschild: 26:41

And then lastly... Actually two more. I would say next, I actually enjoy to do wake surfing. So I grew up in Clearwater Beach, Florida. I would surf on the beaches when there were storms because Clearwater Beach doesn't have the biggest waves, but I really enjoyed it. So now when I can, I'll get behind a boat on one of the lakes that surrounds Atlanta and do a little bit of wake surfing. And then finally, I play in a dad's league at my daughter's school early in the morning, 6:00 AM And my claim to fame is I can still dunk a basketball, and I don't know how much longer that will last, but that's something that I really pride myself on. So those are the things that really bring me joy in life outside of just the work and educational environment.

Ulemu Luhanga: 27:21

Oh, I love it. I just pictured little girls running around when you talked about being a basketball coach, and they're all over the place and you're like, come, come. Okay, there you go.

Ryan Haumschild: 27:33

I think I've learned more from them being their coach than they have from me. That's a very true statement.

Ulemu Luhanga: 27:38

Yes. Oh, thank you so much for your time, Ryan. This has been so, so informative. And before I let you go, any last words of wisdom for aspiring educators or education leaders?

Ryan Haumschild: 27:54

Education is so important, and the impact you can make on the lives of others I think is invaluable. And also at the end of the day, when you are educating others, it brings value to your life and theirs, and you have such meaningful relationships. And never underscore the importance of what you're going to be educated on by teaching others and how much you can learn from others in even kind of that educational environment. Even if you are the teacher, I think there's so much to be learned. So enjoy the journey, understand where people are coming from, be passionate about what you do, engage people in the process, and you'll be able to make such a positive impact in this world.

Ulemu Luhanga: 28:34

Thank you. Thank you. Those are wonderful words to end off on. Thank you again for your time today.

Ryan Haumschild: 28:40

Thank you for having me.