Lessons from Shawana S. Moore, DNP, MSN, CRNP, WHNP-BC

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:02

Hello listeners, welcome to Educational Landscapes, Lessons from Leaders. On today's episode, we are going to learn from Shawana Moore. Welcome to the show, Shawana.

Shawana Moore: 00:13

Thank you so much for having me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:16

To begin, what is your educational leadership title or titles?

Shawana Moore: 00:22

Yes. At Emory University, the Nell Hodgson Woodruff School of Nursing, I serve as the Director of the Doctor of Nursing Practice program, and I'm ranked as an Associate Professor. Also, nationally, I serve as the current President for the National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health. By training I'm a women's health nurse practitioner.

Ulemu Luhanga: 00:45

Amazing. For our listeners who may have heard of the term nurse practitioner, but don't really know what that entails, can you tell us a bit more?

Shawana Moore: 00:56

Sure. At Emory, I prepare the next generation of APRNs, specifically nurse practitioners across various specialties in collaboration with specialty directors so they can care for diverse populations of people. For me, I'm trained as a women's health nurse practitioner. I'm able to provide full scope of care to the women's health and gender related population. Of course, there are various regulations and rules and guidelines depending on which state you reside in. Georgia tends to be a more conservative, or I always try to use a positive, more conservative state when it comes to nursing practice. In other states where there's full practice authority, I'm able to care for the women's health gender-related population across their lifespan. Here at Emory, I help support their development on the level of a terminal degree in terms of a DNP.

Ulemu Luhanga: 01:52

Okay, that's amazing. As you work on developing them in the DNP program, what do you do in that role? Then also what do you do in your national level role?

Shawana Moore: 02:06

Great question. In my role at Emory developing APRNs on that DNP level, I support them with developing a scholarly project. Students identify an issue. It could be a clinically-based issue, it could be a policy issue, it can be something that's community based. They work over the course of three semesters on their specific project to really help improve health systems. I always say when you improve health systems that should always have a focus on community aspects, because patients go back to the communities, they typically don't stay in health systems. I think one unique thing here at Emory is that we have that community focus in mind when we are supporting students with their doctoral education. Yes, they do complete a scholarly project that really investigates or take a deep dive into some sort of issue. Again, it could be policy related around specific policies that may affect one population versus another, but it could be clinically driven or it could be community driven as well.

Shawana Moore: 03:14

The other big piece is students also work in collaboration with the APRN, which is the advanced practice register nurse specialty directors. We have our FNP, we have our women's health, we have our adult gero, primary adult, gero acute, peds primary, peds acute, psych mental health programs that are here. I work with them to coordinate, help with clinical rotations because they rotate within community settings as well as health system settings providing or learning how to care for those populations specific to their specialty area. I think when you think about the doctoral degree, it's that higher level thinking. How do you transform now in the healthcare that you're going to provide for these patients in a different way?

Shawana Moore: 04:04

I think the biggest tangible piece that students walk away is scholarly work. Our students go to present nationally. We encourage international, we encourage regional. We support them with publications. We just had a student have a publication of their DNP scholarly work. Yes, the biggest thing is transforming the way healthcare is delivered on multiple levels, not just within health systems, but also within a community.

Ulemu Luhanga: 04:35

I love that. As you think about the work that you have to do, which is amazing work, what skills do you use in your roles?

Shawana Moore: 04:48

That's a complex and a multilayered question. I think fundamentally the skills that I use have a lot to do where I came from. I grew up in a city called Camden, New Jersey on the East coast, considered a poor city. I say I grew up in a comfortable household in that I didn't want for anything or need for anything. I had my basic essentials of what I need, but I lived around poverty, so I still was exposed to elements like my counterparts. But having that experience growing up gave me a different mindset when engaging with community. I think it gave me a different level of focus and understanding on how communities may have specific unmet needs and how do you address them.

Shawana Moore: 05:39

My point in bringing up where I come from, because it had a lot to do with the skillsets that I've developed over time or even some deficits that I knew I needed to grab in and hone into supporting the growth and development of those skills. I think the skills that I need for leadership first comes from where I come from. I think having a spirit of resiliency, having a spirit of grace and understanding, having open-mindedness to differences in people and being able to support people in a very nonjudgmental way are big things and be open to learning what I don't know, and being open to openly saying, "This sounds like a wonderful opportunity. This is a great topic. I'm not versed in it. Help me understand."

Shawana Moore: 06:29

I think a lot of it is rooted in upbringing and experiences you get over time. I went to the HBCU, a Historically Black College, for undergrad originally to study biology. Yeah, I wanted to be a scientist growing up, and I don't think I'm far from it, but I studied Bio and then I got to see different systems of people from across the country come to this small school in Ohio. Even though people may come from a specific ethnic or racial group, there are still differences among them. Then I went back to get a second degree in nursing and the institution I went to was a little different. It was in an urban city, a predominantly white institution. Again, I got to see different systems of people work and how they work in a different culture. I think being able to have a well-rounded experience helped inform who I am and how I operate within the space that I'm given.

Ulemu Luhanga: 07:34

I love that. You led to the next question, which I have, which is can you tell us a bit more about that journey that led to this current role? I'm very curious how we went from Biology to director of a DNP program.

Shawana Moore: 07:52

Yeah, originally I had this thing that I thought I was going to be a marine biologist. There was an opportunity growing up to have an internship in high school at our State aquarium in New Jersey. I interned there and I was like, "Oh, this is it. I'm studying Biology." Loved it. I loved science. I was good in science. I also participated in a girls' enrichment program that was called GEMS, Girls Excelling in Math and Science. I knew I liked that. I was like, "Okay, perfect. I like science, I like biology, I do good in these, I excel."

Shawana Moore: 08:30

Then the opportunity came for me to get a scholarship. I was a runner. I ran track most of my youth. I had an athletic scholarship to go to North Carolina Central to run. Then I got another academic scholarship to a HBCU, a different HBCU to study Bio, and I said, "Yeah, I'll take academics over athletics", just because I was tired of running at that point. If I have an injury, I lose the scholarship. I didn't want that weight. I was like, "I'll rely on my brain more." Ended up going to Wilberforce to study Bio because I was thinking I was going to be in marine biology at some point.

Shawana Moore: 09:12

Then midway into my education, my mother got ill. She got really sick, she lost her ability to walk, just woke up one morning and could not walk. I was away at school in Ohio, and I remember my sister and my father would call me, gave me updates, and the school I went to, we had a really long winter break. During that time, she was being cared for in the hospital in Philadelphia, and I got to see healthcare firsthand. I got to see what nurses did, what physicians did, what other individuals that were a part of the healthcare team did. I just was like, at that time, I saw that it was nurses really who cared for my mother and brought her back to a holistic person.

Shawana Moore: 09:52

Yes, the surgeon performed the surgery, fixed that technical piece that needed to be fixed, but it was at that point I said, "Oh, no, nurses are holistic. They bring you from emotional, physical, mental, social aspect back to wellness." I said, "Oh, I'm going to be a nurse." I of course said women's health because I saw the inequities and disparities for women in the community system I grew up in, and even within my own household, I always say, "Women we plate everybody else's food first when we're serving food and then we'll make ours last." I'm like, "Why is that?" Culturally we do that. It shows the dynamics on how we care. I'm like, "I think that's fine, but we have to change that conversation and that dynamic and in order for us to care for other people, we have to be able to care for ourselves first."

Shawana Moore: 10:43

That experience with my mom, being able to see what nurses did, I said, "Yes, I'm going to become a nurse." At that time, I think it was maybe my junior year. Then I started looking at programs for nurses, non-nurses and that's when those accelerated programs started coming out where you could become a nurse with a shorter period of time if you had a certain degree and science degrees are degrees that put you closer to that point. I ended up being able to go to the university that was connected to the hospital where my mother was cared for. Yes. I ended up doing both my Bachelor's, my Master's, and my Doctoral degree at that institution.

Shawana Moore: 11:21

The good thing about that, which led me to become a nurse practitioner in women's health is that they provided dual entry into their grad school. I was automatically entered into their graduate program. I did that and I was convinced to go straight into a doctorate by my mom who has a high school education plus certification as a certified home health aide. She really supported me to get the terminal degree and encouraged me to get it, to go straight through. I was the first student at that university to go straight from a Bachelor's degree to an MSN to a DNP degree, and I had wonderful support there. One of my mentors who's here at Emory Dr. Beth Ann Swan, was the Graduate Associate Dean and then moved on to become the Dean. She supported me a lot through my academic journey at that institution, and she's here at Emory, hence I'm here at Emory. Right. That full circle connection.

Shawana Moore: 12:22

How I got into becoming a nurse practitioner and then a doctorate prepared nurse practitioner. I always served in a community role so I always worked in community-based health centers directly involved with urban populations that may be considered marginalized or disproportionately impacted through to no fault of their own. I never blamed the population. There are systemic structures and systems that have been put in place that disproportionately impacts certain populations of people. I've always served in those community roles. As a nurse practitioner, I worked in the heart of Philadelphia, I worked in the heart of Camden, New Jersey where I grew up, which was fantastic.

Shawana Moore: 13:02

Then I ended up teaching, so that's the interesting thing. The same institution where they had the hospital affiliated with my mother's care, I did all of my nursing education from Bachelor's all up into doctorate. I was recruited by a faculty member, including Dr. Swan, to come teach. That's the thing about the power of, I think mentorship and relationships, being open-minded, connecting with people. People can see things in you that you may not necessarily see in yourself, because I didn't see myself as an educator or a faculty member or seeking that role, but somebody saw that in me. Her along with another mentor of mine recruited me to come on over to start teaching at that institution.

Shawana Moore: 13:48

I was there for about nine years before coming over here to Emory. I used to direct their women's health and gender-related women's health nurse practitioner program. Did some fun and fantastic things with that program, helped diversify it, helped increase numbers, built a lot of community partnerships there. Yeah, that was how I became a faculty member, and I was a Director of a women's health NP program, and then I came over to Emory, the Director of DNP program a little over a year ago. That's been my journey through academia so far.

Ulemu Luhanga: 14:23

That is such an amazing journey. As a person whose mom is a nurse as well, just listening to your journey and talking about that holistic aspect of nursing, that definitely resonates with me so much.

Shawana Moore: 14:42

I love it. That's so fantastic.

Ulemu Luhanga: 14:45

Yes, yes. Unlike you, I went and followed my mom and I was like, "Oh, I don't think I can do this."

Shawana Moore: 14:54

That's okay. Each of us have our own destiny and pathway. Right?

Ulemu Luhanga: 15:00

Exactly. Yes, I have such a big warm spot in my heart for nurses, I think because of my mom. I'm always delighted to hear of nurses' journeys. Thank you for sharing.

Shawana Moore: 15:13

You're very welcome.

Ulemu Luhanga: 15:15

As you think about, as you said, currently you're directing the program here and you were a director for a number of years, what do you wish you knew before stepping into that type of leadership role?

Shawana Moore: 15:32

That's a really interesting question because, so here's my bias. I think that we are on a pathway that we're supposed to be on, and we have the tools we need at that given time to learn what we need to learn. I wouldn't say there's something that I wish that I would've known because I wouldn't have the outcome and experiences that I have had. I think that all helps build my journey and my story. I just think my hope and my goal is that whatever I do, it always has a positive impact on the students that I serve and the communities that I serve. I think the universe gives us the tools we need for our given time and our given journey. If not, I'll have a completely different story for you today. I think I had exactly what I needed and there's not one thing I would've hoped for more of. I think the outcome that I always want is impact on individuals that I serve, and I look at that as my students and the communities that I engage with.

Ulemu Luhanga: 16:45

I love that. Thank you. I know you've got your, as we say, local role at Emory and you also have that national role. What continuing professional development do you do to keep up with the needs of those roles?

Shawana Moore: 17:03

Lots of conferences, so engaging in conferences. I know with COVID, a lot of it pivoted to virtually, but I think that's fine because it still provided accessibility and greater accessibility because you didn't have to travel. I think being able to connect with people in person, that's still invaluable to professional development. I've built so many good relationships and was able to work on scholarly work, publications, presentations, just from meeting a colleague at a conference from another state, and we had similar interests. I think just networking, ensuring that you are forward thinking and seeking educational opportunities in areas that may require growth on a regular basis.

Shawana Moore: 17:50

Looking at education and professional development as lifelong and not just like a task you have to do to keep your license. It's exciting, it's lifelong. This will be something that you do and cultivate for the rest of your career and even post-career. Yes, I think just staying engaged, staying on the conference room, being involved in national organizations. As I mentioned earlier, I'm the President of the National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health, which is the organization that is for women's health nurse practitioners and other advanced practice registered nurses who care for the women's health and gender-related population. Again, being able to create agendas and strategic planning behind educational offerings for our member population. Just always being on the forefront.

Shawana Moore: 18:39

I always think you got to think about the next three to five years ahead, not just what's at the present. I always bring up, I say equity has to be at the forefront and community has to be at the forefront of what we offer to our members. The same with students. Without equity in what we do, we do a disservice to the community. I always say those two things should be in mind with any educational opportunity. A lot of educational opportunities that I offer and I seek for myself are those that are embedded in equity. If equity isn't in there, it's like, "Okay, so how do we ensure that it's in there?" There's a lot of ways you can do it.

Shawana Moore: 19:19

My national organization, we just underwent bylaw changes, revisions on that, and we ensured we had an DEI or diversity equity inclusion expert come from another national organization to help support us in that space to ensure it's something that we do. Same thing at Emory. We have our Office of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion led by Dr. Lisa Muirhead along with her amazing team that ensures that's what we facilitate within our school. We have specific curriculum around social determinants of health that was led by one of our faculty members, Dr. Joe Hamilton, that we integrate within our doctoral students' work. That's one of the pillars or concepts that they have to integrate within their project, how the social determinants of health impact this specific policy issue or clinical issue. I think staying engaged, staying at the forefront of seeking education and enjoying the process of doing so.

Ulemu Luhanga: 20:22

That is exactly what I was going to comment on is for some people they talk about continuing professional development and there's a little bit of a sigh, but I love, as you were talking about it, I can hear how you are gaining from the professional development and then what you're learning you're then building it into the work that you do with others.

Shawana Moore: 20:44

Absolutely. That's so important. Very, very important.

Ulemu Luhanga: 20:48

Wonderful. You've given some advice already, but what additional advice would you give someone interested in doing the same type of leadership roles that you have?

Shawana Moore: 20:59

Key is to seek mentorship, I think mentorship is important and foundational for individuals seeking leadership. The other thing is understanding that you lead from where you are. Sometimes when people think about leaders as this extravagant, untouchable person, and I try to dismay that myth in my roles and make it very approachable, humanize it because leaders come with areas of opportunities where they need to grow. I think understanding that you can lead from the very place you sit in. I developed a girls empowerment program a few years ago and just recently got funding here at Emory to launch it here in Atlanta this September within their school system. One of the core pieces we focus on is leadership. I teach the young adolescent females how to lead within their homes, how to lead within their communities, how to lead within their schools.

Shawana Moore: 21:58

Understanding that leadership doesn't look one way in that you can lead from the very place that you are. Shifting that mindset, having mentorship to help guide you. We have an amazing Dean, Dean Linda McCauley here at Emory who's an amazing leader. I know that she pours back into her faculty and staff to ensure individuals understand that leadership comes from within and you can lead and be solution driven right from where you sit. I think those things are key. Understanding that you can lead from where exactly you are and understanding and connecting with mentors that can help support you on your leadership journey.

Ulemu Luhanga: 22:41

Wonderful. Since when the podcast gets posted, we add links to resources, can you tell us what is the name of the girls empowerment program?

Shawana Moore: 22:53

That's exactly what it's called. It's called The Girls Empowerment Program, funding from Emory's Women of Circle provided the funding for $15,000 this year. Other resources I would recommend, Emory has an amazing Leadership Academy. Our School of Nursing is launching a Leadership Academy as well. We have other national Leadership Academies through the National League of Nursing, NLN. The American Association of Colleges of Nursing has leadership programs. Sigma Theta Tau International Honors Society has leadership programs. There are a lot of national, as well as local leadership programs that individuals can go through that help support that journey.

Shawana Moore: 23:44

I had the opportunity to go through a National Leadership Academy through the National League of Nursing as well as a local Leadership Academy at my previous institution. I think being engaged and involved in formal leadership training is helpful as well.

Ulemu Luhanga: 24:03

Thank you. As you think about the various things that you've done, how would you say you support or expand education in your profession or through your roles?

Shawana Moore: 24:19

Being a program director for the DNP program allows me to support the education of the next generation of advanced practice registered nurses. Again, I ensure I connect with students. I just had an email from a student about maybe a week ago, wanting to connect about mentorship opportunities. I'll have a meeting with this student to talk about mentorship, how to connect with mentors and keep the relationship going so it's beneficial for both sides. Sometimes people think of mentorship as one-sided, but it's not always one-sided. I would say things should always be bidirectional. I've had mentors throughout my life that I was able to give back small contributions to. You invite them as a guest speaker. You can send them articles that are common interests. Yes, so serving as a director, but mentoring students and teaching them how to seek mentorship even outside of the School of Nursing or the university.

Shawana Moore: 25:18

I think on a national level, we have at my national organization a student pipeline. We have student membership and we developed a student leadership program where they are able to come to our conference and connect with our amazing Board members and have that mentorship during the time of the conference. The goal is that it continues afterwards, and we're in the process of developing a more robust mentorship program for students on a national basis. It's not just student to student, like mentorship, and it is not age dependent. You can have a mentor that you may be younger than or older than. I think it comes in different forms of fashion, but it's just finding common interest and having a desire to support somebody throughout their journey, whether that be in nursing, clinical, nursing research, or nursing in academic setting.

Ulemu Luhanga: 26:15

Thank you. Wonderful. I'm sure you've already highlighted some amazing things that you've done, but I'm curious, what would you say has been one of your greatest successes thus far?

Shawana Moore: 26:31

I love this question because the greatest success I've had thus far is the ability to change the lives of individuals on a community level as well as a mentorship level. We can have all these accolades, and I could have stayed at awards, but I'm like, "That's not really the impact." When I can have a student that I mentor, and this is a true story, she just finished up her doctoral degree this past May, and I remember her journey and she said, "Dr. Moore." She called me Doc. "Doc, what do you think I should do? Should I go back to get another postgraduate certificate in this specialty area or should I go on and get my doctoral degree?" I said, "Listen, go get your doctoral degree, then we can talk about getting a postgraduate certificate in the specialty." I said, "Get the terminal degree."

Shawana Moore: 27:18

She had a lot of challenges throughout her journey from a financial perspective, but the universe provided where she was able to get funding. Then she had work full time. It was like, "It's too much for me." I said, "Listen, you've been given the opportunity with funding. We have to figure out a way to make this work." she said, "I'll keep going." She's like, "Well, maybe I'll step out and take a leave." I was like, "Listen, you're well, there's no illness. Everything you're telling me is good stuff. You just got to learn how to manage." We used to talk probably every two weeks, talk her through it. I never forget, she gave me a call the day before her graduation, like, "Doc, I'm so glad I listened to you. You told me I'd feel good when I finish. I'm so thankful I listened to you." I said, "I told you. When you're going through it, you don't see the outcome, but that's why you have mentors that can show you to say, Hey, you can do this. Here are some things you can put in place to help support you to do this. You need those people that champion you and cheer you on because they know what the outcome feels like and looks like. You don't know that yet."

Shawana Moore: 28:26

I had that from my career professionally. I had people that championing me and cheerleading me when days I'm like, "I don't think I could really do this. Is this going to work?" That's when you have your mentors. I look at your mentors as your Board of Directors. These are the people you go to when you have critical decision making to do, and they can help guide you. Yeah, so I think my biggest contribution is being able to see people I've mentored have great wins and great successes. When I think about it from a clinical perspective, is patient outcomes. When I see patients have wellness, prevention of disease process. I always say my greatest contribution and achievement is being able to impact communities and individuals and whether that be from an academic standpoint or a clinical standpoint or community standpoint. Those are my greatest contributions, seeing an output of that.

Ulemu Luhanga: 29:23

Thank you so much for your contributions thus far.

Shawana Moore: 29:27

You're very welcome.

Ulemu Luhanga: 29:29

I know we've talked about earlier in the conversation, the importance of lifelong learning in the roles that we do. Can you talk a bit about what you currently think are your greatest growth opportunities at the moment?

Shawana Moore: 29:45

Oh, yes. I love that. Greatest growth opportunities, and I love the positive twist to it. Greatest growth opportunities is probably learning when to say no. I'm a person that's always excited about the next opportunity and what can come from it and how it can be impactful. But being strategic about what I dedicate my time to, it's a more powerful way to say it. I think that's an area of growth.

Shawana Moore: 30:14

What's another area I would say? Probably being more immersed. I'm trying to take a deeper dive into the research space and the research world, but with that community lens. I love the community so if I seek funding, it's always going to be for something community based and community driven, but looking for research opportunities that help connect more of community. I love community participatory research. That's where I am. Being able to seek out more opportunities for research, but involving a community in it, I think that's another area of opportunity for growth.

Shawana Moore: 30:58

Let's see. What's another one, you asked for three? Maybe I don't have a third, but I can say in general, I think for leaders is knowing when to step back and allow others to lead. I think sometimes that can be a challenge for any leader is knowing when to step back. That's a form of leadership, knowing when you can step back and let others lead. I think that's the power of mentorship because mentors taught me that. They taught me, pushed me up and they stepped back from a role so knowing when to do that.

Shawana Moore: 31:35

The other thing I always say is, so I'm an introvert by nature, and I had to learn through leadership development how to be an extrovert with executive presence when needed. People are like, "Oh, you're an introvert?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm truly an introvert. But in this space where we are, I'm going to have an executive presence and I'm going to be an extrovert because this is the space we're in." I've had professional development that has helped support me through executive coaching and leadership development. That's the other piece of it. Knowing what type of leader you are and knowing when to take off that hat and allow somebody else to lead, I think is a key part of leadership that I think sometimes we don't always think about. Knowing when not to lead, I think it's important because sometimes it's not always your voice that needs to be in the room. It's for you to uplift other people.

Shawana Moore: 32:29

One of my other mentors, her name is Dr. Diana Drake out of Minnesota, has been a wonderful mentor of mine. She's a prime example of teaching people when to step back. She's the immediate past President of the National Association of Nurse Practitioners in Women's Health and retired recently. We still collaborate and still talk on a regular basis, but she really taught me the importance of knowing when to step back and when to uplift others so that they can lead.

Ulemu Luhanga: 33:05

Thank you. I think those are important growth opportunities for all of us that you've highlighted. Now, I know we've talked about certain things that you love, but I would love to just get a reiteration. What do you love most about your work and what you do?

Shawana Moore: 33:24

Oh, what do I love most? I love engaging with the next generation of healthcare providers that are going to care for me and my family at some point. I love the ability to transform communities and have sustainable impacts within community settings. Then I think when I think about the scale on a more national and global level is being able to contribute to planning around agendas and strategic plans that will impact the profession and ensuring that equity and community is at the center of it. I think the other piece is understanding that I will always be in that position to do so, so that I'm always reaching back to bring the next person or individuals along that will take the throne and be able to continue to pass the baton forward.

Ulemu Luhanga: 34:24

Oh, thank you. Thank you. I feel like we've touched on this next question, but if there's anything you want to add, please do. Overall, as you reflect on your experiences to date, what would you say your current passions are around education?

Shawana Moore: 34:43

My current passions around education, I think students have to be at the center of it because without a passion for students I don't think anything else matters because they're the end users that are going to take this back out in the community. I think students, and when students have that aha moment and they get it, they make that connection, especially when it comes to engaging in quality improvement projects or policy work. I think my biggest passion with academia is being able to engage with students and bringing them from point A to point Z.

Shawana Moore: 35:19

The other thing I would say is, even now, I still have mentors that help support me and develop me as the leader where I am, but see the future for me. Being able to engage with mentors in academia settings that can see and support my future growth and development as a leader within an academic space. Last but not least, even though we're in an academic setting, we still have partners. Having those clinical partners, having those community partners, being able to collaborate on various projects and include students in those projects, I think is one of my passions when it comes to academia.

Ulemu Luhanga: 36:05

Thank you. We're about to get to my last question for today, which is we recognize you are more than what you do at work. What are some things you do outside of work to help you maintain joy in life and practice?

Shawana Moore: 36:26

Joy in life and practice so these are the things I do. I walk mostly every day. Walking is so therapeutic to me especially here in Georgia where it's more rural. I came from an urban city where it was lots of noise around. Here it is very peaceful and serene. Not that the noise is bad, but I'm able to connect a little bit more with nature and just relax. I started doing a self-care routine where I learned how to do my own facials. I did a class and got some products. I learned how to self-care, do facials, which I find very relaxing to do. Travel if possible. I love to travel. Most of the time I travel now is related to work so I'm trying to figure out a way to balance that piece out of it where it's not work-related, it's more leisure. I have a kiddo, he's seven, whose name happens to be Emory.

Ulemu Luhanga: 37:24

Oh.

Shawana Moore: 37:26

Yeah. I enjoy time with my seven-year-old ensuring he's the best human being possible and exposing him to new opportunities and new experiences. That's what I do in my spare time.

Ulemu Luhanga: 37:39

Oh, I love that. Now I'm so curious. Was it just coincidence that he was named Emory?

Shawana Moore: 37:48

His name is Emory, spelled just like Emory University. You remember I only came here a little over a year ago and he's seven. When I was three months pregnant with him, there, I was again, I was in a leadership program and there was a conference here, conference here held by NLN, National League for Nursing at Emory, the main campus. I heard of the name Emory, and I was like, "Oh, Emory would be a good name, and it's unisex." I didn't need to know what the gender abirth was to name the child Emory. That's how that came about. Then it just so happened I end up at Emory.

Ulemu Luhanga: 38:31

As you said, the universe had already planned it out. You just needed to go through the motion.

Shawana Moore: 38:36

Exactly. 100%.

Ulemu Luhanga: 38:41

Well, thank you so much for your time today. Before I let you go, are there any last words of wisdom for aspiring educators or educational leaders?

Shawana Moore: 38:55

The only thing I would say is lead from exactly where you are and seek mentorship to help support you on your leadership journey.

Ulemu Luhanga: 39:03

Thank you. Wonderful words to end on.

Shawana Moore: 39:07

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Ulemu Luhanga: 39:07

Of course.